---

To all Anonymous Press Pioneer fans: please excuse the delay in
publishing this new interview – but here it is.


http://appinterviewscontinue.blogspot.com/

Phone rings and rings… Where the hell is she? Finally, she picks up…

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Hello…

APP: Hey, Barbara! Got snow?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: More than enough. Polar bears envy me.

APP: Thought so. Any comment on the article "The Apostate" in the New
Yorker?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Oh, please, don't get me started on this one…

APP: Come on, say something, any comment is alright with me. I won’t
censor you, I promise.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Okay, but don't forget that you got me started!

APP: I’d never dare.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I googled Paul Haggis’ name and his photos are placed
between all these sausages and meat bags. That stuff is still more
famous than he is.

APP: Come on, that can’t be true. Let me check this… (checking Google
images) Holy Moly, you’re right… How funny!

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Lots of haggis around Paul Haggis on Google. Maybe I
try the vegetarian version one day.

APP: Of Paul Haggis?!

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, silly, the dish! I hate to admit it but when I
was a kid in Germany, I was served some Haggis version. They called it
Blutwurst (black pudding) with apple sauce. It was gross! The apple
source was alright but the Blutwurst was awful! I remember that I was
looking at my plate and thought to myself: this can’t be healthy...
Hey, did you call me to exchange recipes or what?

APP: Nope, I asked you already on your thoughts about the New Yorker
article.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Lawrence Wright is as blind as most others. It is
such a shame that reporters don't compare photos and other footage of
L. Ron Hubbard and Mark or Marty Rathbun because if they would, they
could see that the originals are being impostored by doppelgangers.
Wright's article is joke because he is one of those who do not
understand that the main problem of the Scientology orgs is
infiltration and alteration. So, whatever negative stuff is going on
in and is around of Scientology, it is NOT Scientology as by the
founder but by the infiltration who do not honor the founder’s
writings.

APP: Barbara, if you could prove that you are L. Ron Hubbard's
kidnapped daughter, would you be a Million Dollar Baby?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Most certainly.

APP: What would you do with all that cash?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I would find Ron again and give him all his cash
back.

APP: He is dead, remember?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, he is not. He just has a new body.

APP: What is your impression of Paul Haggis?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: My goodness! That article is embarrassing for him
too. Breaking into the principal office and changing his school
record, writing false check… Isn't that a felony? And he is a bad
father too. He was a nobody before Scientology. "Nice" guy who stabs
Scientology who helped him to success in the back. I think he is scum.
You could not pay me to see his movies.

APP: He says that he left Scientology because the church agrees and he
disagrees with Proposition 8 that asserted that California should
sanction marriage only between a man and a woman. Did you read that?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Who knows what his real motives were to join and
later leave Scientology? I don't think either one were honest. Many
churches think that homosexuality is immoral. Haggis knew already 35
years ago where Scientology stands on that subject. He is an atheist,
and didn't join Scientology for religious or spiritual reasons. He
seems to me like a celebrity mole who infiltrated Scientology with his
out-ethical agenda. In Scientology, a smart person can figure out the
reason for homosexuality. After death of a body, secret service
psychiatrists trap beings (thetans) against their will in bodies of
the other gender. A person who was in his former lifetimes a man is
suddenly stuck in a body of a woman. A person who was in her former
lifetimes a woman is suddenly stuck in the body of a man. If they
would be not tricked and manipulated into taking that body of the
other gender but allowed to pick up a baby body with the gender that
they always had and preferred, there would be no homosexuality. People
not being in the self-chosen body they had for many lifetimes before
are the causes of being gay or lesbian. Anybody gay and lesbian has a
legal claim against secret service psychiatrists and mind controllers
for deceiving and ticking them. We need laws against these kind of
crimes.

APP: Being pro-gay and pro-lesbian is politically correct. Are you
aware that your statement is politically incorrect?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I give a damn what's political incorrect or not.
After a person dies, she is not free but tricked in the opposite
gender. Don't expect me to be quiet about. Do you like your gender?

APP: Yeah sure!

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Do you want to be a woman in your next lifetime but
still feel like a man?

APP: Nope. It won't happen to me. Nobody is tricking me into a wrong
gender body…

BARBARA SCHWARZ: That is what those who have now a gender that they
didn't choose were once thinking too.

APP: How can one trick a spirit?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Spirit can hear. They play on its emotions, e.g. are
telling it that it has to hurry otherwise the body is be picked up by
another being and they won’t get any other body. Before they can see
the gender developing, they dive into the fetus and melt in it.
Frequencies are then used to make it forget its former memory and a
boy will be born 9 months later who was formerly a girl, or a girl
will be born who was formerly a man, and they either keep their
feelings for the same sex to themselves or they become lesbians and
homosexuals.

APP: Somebody in Haggis’ family isn’t straight… Don’t you think that
this is a reason to resign?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts). If he would have been a real
Scientologist, he would have figured out why that family member is
attracted to the same gender and never have resigned from Scientology.
His resignation was just a justification for hidden other reasons. The
New Yorker wrote that he wasn’t emotionally close to this children and
that makes this resignation even phonier.

APP:    Did you ever meet him?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, and I don't want to meet him. He got his first
writing jobs through Scientology and after he got enough success, he
dumped and attacked it. How “noble” and “impressive”. On the photo in
The New Yorker, he looks like the people who standing in line at soup
kitchens. I wonder if he isn't some kind of leftish agent who is
trying to force Scientology to give up on its ethical principles.

APP: Was L. Ron Hubbard anti-gay?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: He was not anti anybody. He was helping anyone.
People have to understand that if they don't ever learn why people
have gay and lesbian feelings, the abuse of people being tricked and
born in the wrong gender will continue. One day all people will be
"gender-switched" against their will. Is that what everyone wants? L.
Ron Hubbard was helping anyone with his research. I know that there
are people who suffer quite a bit by having a body of the gender they
didn't chose. Some have surgery to get in that gender that they would
have picked if they would have been not mind controlled to take a body
of the other gender. L. Ron Hubbard wanted anyone to know the truth.
After they know the truth who they are and why they feel for the same
gender, they can make an informed decision for the future.

APP: Are Scientologists making derogative comments about gay people?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: If they do, they are no Scientologists because a
Scientologist knows that gay and lesbians are thetans too.

APP: Haggis says that he is against violence and abuse within the C of
S management. Can he be blamed for that?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don't trust him an inch. The impostor of the
original Marty Rathbun in Scientology, Mosey's husband in Texas
admitted having beaten people, and Haggis has no moral problem
befriending him. However, I also don't think that David Miscavige
never stepped over the line. The problem is that abusive non-
Scientologists and former or current infiltrators are within the rows
of the apostates, the Independents, the Freezone but also still within
the Church of Scientology, and WHATEVER THEY DO, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH OUR RELIGION SCIENTOLOGY OR FOUNDER RON!

APP: Haggis talks disconnection too. What do you think of it?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: If people are being told to disconnect from family,
it is not Scientology either. But be reminded that any other adult
never related to Scientology disconnects too when people or also
family members don't leave him alone. I was kidnapped by Cyril Vosper
and two other men because I had not disconnected from a dangerous
family member, and she knew where to find me. However, the culture of
disconnection comes rather from the founder's impostor who I have
named Jack Vistaril. L. Ron Hubbard valued family highly. He knew that
bad family relations can be repaired, and he would have only approved
disconnection within a family if the well-being of a person is
otherwise in danger. Nobody disconnected when I was in Scientology.
Back then, Scientologists went through great efforts to maintain good
relationships with their families.

APP: I heard of that kidnap story. How did you get over it?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I just did because I know how to apply Scientology
correctly.

APP: Haggis says he is a deeply broken person…

BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts) He calls himself a broken person and
does not connect with his children and is emotionally "not there" for
them. It says so in the New Yorker of Feb. 2011! Emotionally "not
there"? He should have never been allowed to call himself a
Scientologist. He sure didn't apply real Scientology as of the real
founder L. Ron Hubbard, otherwise, he would have been "emotionally
there" for his children. If he is emotionally not there, did he really
write his emotional scripts? He can't quit smoking? He had a heart
attack! He has no willpower! A real Scientologist can quit any
addiction and can move mountains with his willpower. I don't know if
Paul Haggis realizes this but that article is no compliment for his
character.

APP: Sky Dayton, the EarthLink founder is a Scientologist?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: All I know is that notorious liar, harasser and
abuser Garry Scarff from Los Angeles attacked and forged me (a
Scientologist) for a long time on Usenet with an e-mail account that
he had with EarthLink. I complained to EarthLink many times and
despite it is known to the top management of Scientology that Garry
Scarff tries also to ruin the religion Scientology, nobody of
EarthLink told him to stop violating TOS and stop harassing, abusing
and forging a Scientologist or trying to bring Scientology down.

APP: What do you say about Haggis’ childhood?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I’m shocked. He said, he didn't kill anybody but that
he tried. Such people in Scientology creep me out. He picked locks and
sneaked into the prefect’s office and eliminated his demerit! He
forged a check. That's a felony. Jail is the place for these kind of
people not the orgs of Scientology! He was drifting and hanging with
drug dealers. Can it get any lower?

APP: But he got very successful later, the guy won an Academy Award.
Doesn’t this count for something?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: He admits that he got his first writing jobs through
Scientology connections and then he stabs Scientology in the back.
What a "lovely" fellow. His grandfather told him not to waste his life
but he keeps on smoking. Haggis thinks he just lives one lifetime.
Scientologists believe in past lives. Haggis was no Scientologist
because he never run a past live in is many auditing sessions as if he
would be afraid of looking what he did. It needs courage and honesty
to be a Scientologist. He says himself in this article that he does
not believe in reincarnation. In all these years, he remained a non-
Scientologist because past lives are essential in Scientology. I also
think that Narconon should have a program to help people to get over
their smoking habits when they are like Haggis and can't quit on their
own. I am sure that under the real Ron, there was such a program but
that the smoking impostor removed it.

APP: Can you call it an infiltration when people in the streets are
randomly approached by book sellers?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: If an infiltrator secret service organizes who walks
by and approaches who, yes, that can be organized infiltration. Jim
Logan who was married Annie Broeker approached Haggis in the streets.
Her former husband Pat Broeker wasted L. Ron Hubbard's money. I heard
that the Broeker's dropped each week a million Dollars on the desk of
the impostor of L. Ron Hubbard. I asked Jim Logan if he knew anything
about it. He chose to keep quiet about it. I am certain that people
are actively brought to Scientology by secret services to ruin it. In
other words, book sellers approach deliberately bad apples.

APP: Why didn’t Logan reply?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: He is just as irrational as many other people. They
constantly think that anyone is from OSA, the external affairs unit of
the Church of Scientology. I am not but even if I would be, if nothing
foul happened and Jim Logan has a good conscience, he could have
replied and answered that question.

APP: Haggis took a course and became a Hubbard Qualified
Scientologist. Doesn’t that mean he is a Scientologist?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: What a joke. He must have cheated through the course.
He just read 30 pages of the DMSMH...

APP: DMSMH?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Dianetics book, also called Book 1. He attested to
Clear but didn't read the DMSMH! I am beyond shocked. I don’t think
that Haggis is clear because engrams didn’t just happen in this
lifetime. If somebody only run engrams in this lifetime and never
those from former lifetimes, he impossibly can be Clear.

APP: Please explain engrams.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: An engram is mental image picture, memory or
recording or an incident containing pain and unconsciousness of a
person and Dianetics auditing eliminated the charge or harmful effect
of such an incident. Jim Logan didn't make sure that Haggis understood
the book. He just sold it. Good grief! Jim Logan opened some kind of
academy to deliver the "technology of Scientology" in the USA. Let's
hope he doesn't just sell something but also makes sure that people
understand what he sells.

APP: Lawrence Wright, the New Yorker author of "The Apostate"
mentioned the famous acting school Beverly Hill Playhouse. He wrote
that Scientologist Milton Katselas who died a couple of years ago was
the link between that acting school and Scientology but that no such
connection exists anymore. Do you know anything about it?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am not star struck. I rarely keep up with celebrity
news or any acting scene but if you go to the website of that school,
Anne Archer's statement is still on the front page. So, whatever Mr.
Wright says or writes, I would not bet the farm on it.
http://www.bhplayhouse.com/Acting-Classes/

APP: Did you read that he researched and wrote 10 months on that
article?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: 10 months research, and he didn’t figure that L. Ron
Hubbard and the original Marty Rathbun were/are impostored. What a
shame and waste of time.

APP: Haggis says he was Operating Thetan VII. Don’t you believe this?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Are you kidding me? That man never read the DMSMH. He
didn't apply ethics, the tonescale or other Scientology technology. He
is an Atheist and isn’t aware of past lives and being an spiritual
being. He can't stop smoking. That is not an OT. He is worse than a
Catholic Cardinal who doesn’t believe in Christ! He never should have
been allowed to anything but being a non-Scientologists.

APP: He was sort of a conformist within organized Scientology. Isn’t
that possible?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Not me. I was always a constructive rebel, inside or
outside of Scientology because I am a real Scientologist.

APP: Haggis said he didn't raise his IQ, perception, and he got a
heart attack… Doesn’t he deserve your sympathy?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: He didn’t raise his IQ because he was too lazy to
think for himself. People who just hang out in Scientology and wait
for a magic bullet to get supernatural abilities don’t raise their
IQs. Scientology is intensive study for thinking people who try in
real life to implement these things. How often did I say already that
the SEGNPMSS organized infiltration of Scientology altered L. Ron
Hubbard’s scriptures to make him look non-scientific. Duh! He smokes
and anybody knows that it is bad for any health. But hand in hand with
getting rid of engrams and with going OT, L. Ron Hubbard, the real
one, advocated a very healthy lifestyle in a protected environment. As
the medical/psychiatric infiltration of Scientology removed these
components and technologies from Scientology, also Scientologists are
aging and getting sick and die. As so much was removed from
Scientology, apparently only the very smart people are getting smarter
and dummies stay dummies.

APP: What is SEGNPMSS again?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Abbreviation that stands for Still Existing German
Nazi Psychiatrists' Mindcontroller Secret Service. In German:
INBDNPGB: Immer noch bestehender Deutscher Nazi-Psychiatrie
bewusstseinskontrollierende Geheimdienst.

APP: This secret service was formed under Hitler?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No, it was formed much earlier but during the Nazi
time, they showed their real psychiatric monster faces very clearly.
That is why I included the Nazis in that name. I had to name that very
secret and very ugly child…

APP: Haggis said that he had chosen to ignore the Lisa McPherson case
when he was on the inside. Any comment?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: That is not what a real Scientologist does. I didn’t
ignore the case and wrote often about it. I figured that Lisa
McPherson was psychiatric ambushed in her hotel room in Orlando when
she was on a business trip and was psychiatric altered, hypnotizes,
implanted, e-shocked and programmed to “lose her mind” and scheduled
to die in the hands of so-called Scientologists. As Scientology is so
infiltrated and altered that it doesn’t produce many real OTs anymore,
so-called Scientologists fall for any psychiatric trick in the book. I
am sure that the Lisa McPherson case was a psychiatric set up to make
the orgs accept psychiatry. And her case wasn’t the only such
psychiatric attempt. Haggis doesn’t get anything.

APP: Haggis said at the end of his life in Scientology, he wanted
auditing to be over with. Doesn’t that indicate that something is
wrong?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Maybe Haggis was afraid that his auditor might find
out that he isn’t a Scientologist and that is why he didn’t like to be
in session. If the real founder’s technologies wouldn’t be altered by
psychiatric controlled agents, nobody would hate auditing. But the
problem with Haggis is that he doesn’t figure out WHY he rejected it
and WHAT was/is wrong. He is still not asking hard questions.

APP: Scientology raises the IQ?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Non-altered Scientology raises the IQ of any person.
Evidently, the apostates prove that psychiatric altered Scientology
didn’t raise their IQs. Only already very intelligent individuals
become smarter despite of the altered writings because they are able
to DUPLICATE THE PERSONALITY OF L. RON HUBBARD AND LEARN TO READ
BETWEEN THE LINES. They know what is missing and add the missing data
to their knowledge. But if somebody isn’t very bright, he thinks that
there is no alteration and becomes a psychiatric appreciated cultist.
That is why only Haggis’ability to make money and some other abilities
were raised but not his IQ to understand Scientology and the
universe.

APP: Where you an atheist like Haggis before you joined Scientology?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Not at all. I talk to God like a daughter to her
father. I wasn’t praying by repeating the same verses all over as if
God would be deaf and didn’t hear me the first time. I had and still
have a daughter/father relationship to God. Scientology made that
personal relationship even a lot deeper.

APP: Haggis was disappointed that he couldn’t fly on level Clear. Is
he not entitled to disappointment?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: This man is really something! He hasn’t read the
Dianetics book. He doesn’t really know what Clear means. If he would
have applied L. Ron Hubbard’s study technology, he would have been
able to understand the book and anything else in Scientology. It means
getting rid of engrams, e.g. painful experiences of this and former
lifetimes, e.g. being afraid of flying, childbirth, water, dogs, or
whatever bothers a person. It does not teach you to fly. L. Ron
Hubbard said that when a cannibal is cleared, he still is a cannibal.
It just takes care of engrams. If Haggis would have run real engrams,
it would have been life changing for him. But he didn’t even read the
book! It is not an easy read but I was able to read and understand it
and so did others.

APP: Did psychiatrists change the DMSMH too?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: They changed just about anything but as it was so
broadly available, psychiatrists and their infiltration in Scientology
couldn’t completely hide that there is a thing as engrams and once
they are no longer there, people are a lot better in shape and
happier.

APP: Did the Food and Drug Administration compel the church to declare
that the e-meter has no curative powers and is ineffective in
diagnosing or treating disease?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Ron, the founder never said that the e-meter has
curative powers and would treat diseases. I received 140 pounds
records from the US Dept. of Health and Human Services about their e-
meter witch hunt. Waste of tax payers’ money! It measures spiritual
energy.

APP: Scientologists re-live past lives in auditing sessions under use
of the e-meter?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: When they are not like Haggis and not afraid to look
back, they often enter past lives. If they make it up to the OT levels
and their auditors didn’t notice that they never entered a past life
but allow them to graduate, their auditors and C/S are no real
Scientologists either.

APP: Did you enter past lives?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, I did. My first past life pictures took my
breath away. I KNEW it had happened. It is not just memory from a
movie or fantasy. Those can be three dimensional pictures with
emotions that blow your socks off up. It is quite an adventure.

APP: Are you convinced that other people lived before too?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: 100% without the smallest doubt. People die and are
born again. It is a fact. If you ask me, Haggis is a very non-
spiritual person and doesn’t feel the present of God or the fact that
he is a spiritual being that lived before he had this meat body. He
said that he always was a selfish bastard, and he didn’t change. He
didn’t change because he didn’t even try to apply Scientology. I pity
him. Ethics needs personal effort. Just as he had not enough willpower
to quit smoking, he had not enough willpower to apply ethics to his
life.

APP: He mentioned Skip Press. Do you know this guy?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I know Skip Press only through some of his postings
to alt.religion.scientology. He posts there as Skipper and is one
very rude person. He attacks and defames. I am as little impresses by
Haggis acquaintances as I am by him.

APP: Lawrence Wright referred to an editorial in a 1959 issue of the
Scientology magazine Ability that notes that “neither Lord Buddha nor
Jesus Christ were O.T.s…” How do you comment?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Whatever! L. Ron Hubbard wasn’t the author or editor
of the Ability mag. One of these atheist infiltrators had an urge to
smear some crap into a Scientology magazine. Buddha and Jesus most
certainly had OT abilities.

APP: Some people say that OT levels are written in Hubbard’s
handwriting. Doesn’t that mean that they are authentic?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: The OT levels were the first that the psychiatric
infiltration altered in Scientology because they don’t want OTs. OTs
are smart and able to figure them out. They prefer non-OTs. There are
many forgeries.

APP: Is it true that most of the upper level of Scientology involve
exorcising spirits?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: As I said, Scientology is altered. I am convinced
that secret services, e.g. the CIA has anything in their files that
Ron, the real founder ever said and wrote because he was under
“protective surveillance”. As far as spirits are concerned, they do
exist and they can invade a body. Have a look at them: See my blog:
http://barbaraschwarz.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/i-attracted-approx-35-orbs-thetans-without-bodies-a-few-nights-ago/
But you don’t have to be afraid of them. Without a human body, you
look just like them.

APP: Did you read Russell Miller’s and Bent Corydon’s books?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, I read these book years ago, and they are a
waste of time because these “Einsteins” didn’t figure out that
Scientology was altered and L. Ron Hubbard impostored and forged. Or
they know it and cover it up.

APP: Is Dan Sherman a Scientologist?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think so. I believe that DM or Mike Rinder
hired him to write L. Ron Hubbard’s biography and also that of DM. No
official biography on Ron is yet officially published because it is
not that easy to mix the life of two very different individuals (the
founder and his impostor) in one story.

APP: People have two different opinions of L. Ron Hubbard: the most
important person who ever lived and the world’s greatest con man…

BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts) They all basically know but nobody but I
have the guts to say so: Ron, the founder was indeed the most
important man who ever lived and his impostor was a con man. I read
Lawrence Wright’s article in the New Yorker, and he makes the same
stupid mistakes that other made: they don’t figure out that L. Ron
Hubbard was impostored. Don’t ask me about the war history, the
education, and the wives of Mr. Nebraska. It is not the founder’s life
story.

APP: Hubbard’s name is often mentioned with of Jack Parsons who was a
member of the Ordo Templi Orientis… Who knew him, the founder or the
imposter?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am 100% certain that Ron, the real founder never
had anything to do with Parson, and he never was interested in any
other person but his own wife. That Parson’s stuff refers to the
impostor’s life.

APP: Are you serious with your statement that the impostor was a CIA
agent?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: You bet. I think that Mr. Nebraska was a SEGNPMSS/CIA
double agent and it is likely that the CIA had him infiltrate Parson’s
black magic group for whatever purpose. I have memories that identify
the real Ron, the founder as son of Dwight Eisenhower and that the CIA
gave him the name Lafayette Ronald Hubbard to “protect him from Nazi
attacks” but I am sure that they didn’t tell him that the fellow born
by that name looked exactly like him and was still alive.

APP: Can you prove it?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: One can’t prove anything to a planet that is run by
the SEGNPMSS that controls just about any person on Earth through over
six Billions of ear implants.

APP: Wright says that Dianetics and Scientology is dismissed by
scientists. Do you know scientists who approve of it?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think that any real scientist dismissed
anything that the real founder Ron wrote and discovered. CIA allowed
SEGNPMSS/CIA double agent to change Ron’s writing and that resulted in
that Dianetics and Scientology are no longer that scientific and
potent as before, or even look ridiculous now. Just as the doctor
(psychiatrists) ordered because they feel threatened by a sane world
that can be created with original Scientology.

APP: What do you think about the Sea Org?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I love Ron’s original Sea Org. Dedicated, decent
good, intelligent people not wasting time do collect personal riches
but working together to change the world to the better but since the
Sea Org is infiltrated by non-Scientologists and agents of all kinds,
it is not that place that is was under the real L. Ron Hubbard. Ron
never would approve of what the Apollo impostor, DM, and others turned
the Sea Org into, an infiltrated place with many people who are no
Scientologists, where women abort, children don’t matter and people
are roughening each other up.

APP: Do you know Janis Grady?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think so. Just briefly ran into her on
Usenet. She sailed on the Apollo and that was the impostor’s vessel.

APP: Mary Sue, the Controller of the Guardian Office and law breaker
was the impostor’s wife?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes. I am very sure of this.

APP: Sea Org staff earn only 200 Dollars per month?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is not that bad of a deal if Scientologists could
live in environments in which they can preserve their youth and health
but as these don’t exist anymore and ideal orgs are not being built
how the real Ron would want Scientologists to live and as also other
technology was altered, they age too and also get sick and die.

APP: 200 bucks is not a great income.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: If you have your apartment in a beautiful village in
which you can preserve your youth and health, free medical or dental
assistance if you need it, free room and board, free utilities, free
clothes and shoes, free laundry services, free child care, free hair
cuts, free transportation, free auditing and training, free education
for you and your children, etc. it is not a bad deal. I learned many
people have nothing left of their pay checks at the end of the month
after they paid their basics. Having all cared for and 200 Dollars on
top of it isn’t that bad a deal when working in a religious order,
provided that all those above rights are granted to good people.

APP: Would you re-join the Sea Org?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: If it would be exactly like the founder had laid it
down, yes, in a heartbeat. Under him, the individual was respected
highly. Originally, Scientology was the anti-cult.

APP: Sea Org members are not allowed children?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: That is David Miscavige’s squirrel version of the Sea
Org and non-Scientologists, the infiltrators apparently do abort. L.
Ron Hubbard (the founder) made clear that having children is a
dynamics and in other writings he stressed how important children are
for the future. He would be outraged if he would know about
abortions.

APP: Do you believe that the claims of the abortions are true?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, because when I was on staff I heard it from one
of my juniors who wanted to join the SO. She had no reason to lie to
me. She told it to me in confidence from woman to woman. The non-
Scientologist RTC recruiter told her indirectly to abort if she wanted
to join the RTC. I told her not to and join rather another org in
which kids were allowed and as far as I know she didn’t abort. When I
heard that, I was already on the SEGNPMSS list to be kicked out
Scientology, and I was no longer in the position to raise hell on the
inside. It is such a violation of everything L. Ron Hubbard stood for.
Ron explained detailed in the DMSMH what abortion does to a person and
what kind of people do abort. No compliment for all those who abort or
tell others to abort.

APP: When was that?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Spring of 1984.

APP: Hubbard in Creston was the founder or the impostor?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: … the impostor.

APP: What happened to the founder if he isn’t the one who died on
January 26, 1986?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am sure the CIA can answer that.

APP: Did you read the script “Influencing the planet” that Haggis
mentioned?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. Even the headline sucks and isn’t something the
founder would write. Was probably written by a psychiatrist and the
impostor. The real Ron wrote his own scripts. The real Ron knew that
there was only one way to change the world to the better and that was
through science and truth, and that is what he did.

APP: What is all that talk of Fair Game?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: An old “policy” that was never by the real founder
but by infiltrators and the impostor.

APP: Wollersheim, Christofferson-Titchbourne, and some other sued
Scientology and were awarded millions of dollars... What do you think
about that?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is the old song. Non-Scientologists infiltrate
Scientology, other infiltrators in the orgs deny their rights, and
Scientology has to pay despite it has nothing to do with the founder
or Scientology. If – with the help of God – these people are one day
convicted of working on illegal psychiatric secret service programs to
infiltrate and destroy Scientology, they might have to pay all back,
and maybe sent to prison.

APP: I don’t understand why the Church of Scientology tries to keep OT
III data under wraps. Most religions make claims that are hard if not
impossible to prove.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am sure that the real Ron kept no secrets. He
wanted people to know as fast and much as possible. There are two
Scientologys. That of the real founder Ron, and the altered version of
the impostor. By having infiltrators protecting the altered OT III
version, the SEGNPMSS wants to make the world believe that those are
the real OT levels.

APP: David Miscavige announced that L. Ron Hubbard moved to the next
level and discarded his body. What level is that?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: The level is called “psychiatric lies about Ron”. We
Scientologists believe that the person comes back in a new body. What
DM said made sure that nobody searched for L. Ron Hubbard on this
planet, where he still is. It is a lie that L. Ron Hubbard has no new
body on Earth. All worked after plan, except that they made that plan
without me.

APP: In former publications, Paul Haggis expressed his excitement
about Scientology and how it improved his life. He also recommended
the Purification Rundown. Did you do that Rundown?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, I did and I had great wins too, I noticed
particularly an improved speed of my ability to read, study, and
understand. It took away lots of “mind fog” and I felt also physically
fit. The problem with Paul Haggis is that he is a person without
spiritual awareness. That is typically for atheists. If he would, he
would have had a lot more wins, despite Scientology is altered, a
smart person that duplicates the character of the founder can read
between the lines and can still reach the stars. Haggis liked the
motto: makes the able more able but he figured nothing of what I
figured.

APP: Haggis took drugs when he was young. Did you take drugs?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No.

APP: You were in Scientology for many years. Is Haggis right that
Scientologists have no sense of humor?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Ron, the founder had a great sense of humor and
people say that about me too. There is something about infiltrators
that I noticed: real Scientologists do have a great sense of humor but
cultic infiltrators have none. Birgitta Harrington who kicked me out
of FOLO EU left and attacked Scientology right after she denied my
right to be in it. I remember that another girl and I had fun
(something very different than joking for the purpose of degrading) on
the decks while working hard. We were not lazy. But we made each other
laugh to make the work more enjoyable. Birgitta was such a cultic
robot. She came in and forbid us to laugh. It is not the real Ron’s
Scientology. It is the psychiatric version of Scientology. L. Ron
Hubbard said so often to see life as a game not as dead serious
penalty but infiltrators want to take the game and fun away and make
life hard and unfriendly. As not otherwise expected, Birgitta became
an attacker of Scientology. Infiltrators as like her make the orgs to
unfriendly and non-scientology places.

APP: Let’s talk again about Haggis… He says he directed a Dianetics ad
but it never aired.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: He admitted that never read the Dianetics book. He
made an ad about something that he never understood! We can all can be
glad that we never saw this ad on TV. I think that without getting his
first writer jobs through Scientology connections, he might have never
made it in the writer business. But he doesn’t admit this, doesn’t he?

APP: Haggis told that he was not made to atone to ethics as other
people in Scientology because he was famous. What is out ethics?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: When you do something against your own or anybody’s
else’s survival. Haggis was long enough in Scientology to know that he
has to correct his out ethics on his own. By being out ethics, he is
harming himself and that will never change, if he is in Scientology or
not. This is how a thetan, a human being is designed. It basically
knows what is wrong and what is right. By doing wrong and shameful
things, a being becomes vulnerable, smaller, shameful, degraded, and
stupid. To somebody being in Scientology for a longer time, an ethics
officer shouldn’t have to tell that he is out ethics. He should know
that before he commits the out ethics act. I am shocked that Paul
Haggis children rather wanted to go to boarding school than staying
with their father. That article is an embarrassment for him... He may
think that it would harm Scientology but this article isn’t good PR
for him either. But interesting is that Haggis children apparently
competed High School at a Delphi school while Amy Scobee blames
Scientology for having not completed High School, and despite she
could make her High School diploma now, she rather talks bad about
Scientology than going back to school. If that High School diploma is
so important for her, why doesn’t she get it? In that New Yorker
article she indicated that the FBI didn’t want her to talk about any
investigation against Church of Scientology but she retaliated against
the FBI because they didn’t do what she wanted the FBI to do and blows
the whistle on their pending secret investigation? Wonder if that
violates laws what she did.

APP: Hey, this is supposed to be an interview. I am asking the
question. Haggis told Deborah Rennard in the 90s that he had a “crisis
of faith” and doesn’t believe that he is a spiritual being. Did you
ever have a crisis of faith?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. Scientology is about knowledge. I am shocked
about just anything that I read about Haggis. How can a person be so
unaware of himself than this man is? He doesn’t believe that he is a
spiritual being! 35 years in Scientology and never got in touch with
his spiritual side. It is unbelievable. How can a meat body have
feelings or be aware of something?

APP: He feels he’s invincible. Is that bad in your opinion?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Nobody’s body is invincible. And he is just a body
because he does not believe that he is a spiritual being. He says on
page 2 that he was a bad kid that he didn’t kill anybody but that he
tried. He really gives me the creeps.

APP: Do you know that he paid a lot of money into Scientology?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: So he says but as they helped him to become a
successful writer, he made a lot more money through Scientology.
Steven Spielberg noticed that Scientologists are the nicest people,
and Paul Haggis who was never a Scientologists (didn’t even read Book
1 and does not believe in being a spiritual being) has the guts to
represent himself as Scientologist to Steven Spielberg and answered:
“WE keep the evil once all in a closet.” I think that joke is just
funny when it is told by a person who is not evil himself.

APP: Haggis wanted Scientology to take a public stand against Prop. 8.
Do you think that was wrong?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Who is Paul Haggis to make such a demand? He was
trying to blackmail Scientology, either you do that or else… And he
wasn’t ever a Scientologist. He said himself that he should have been
never in Scientology. So, why the heck is he trying to force his
demands onto a religion to which he does not belong?

APP: Wasn’t Deborah Rennard the secretary of JR?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, she played Sly on Dallas but she did not kill
JR. (Laughs) Lawrence Wright threw just about any celebrity name in
that article to give it more weight and indicates his own obsession
with celebs.

APP: Her parents were not allowed to see their grandchildren, and they
sued the church?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: So Lawrence Wright says, but he mentioned no case
number. If Scientology would be applied as by the founder and the
church not infiltrated by non-Scientologists, such situations would
not occur. The real founder regarded family highly.

APP: Do you understand that many people don’t like that disconnection
practice?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Sure. A family that loves each other is sticking
together until the end of time, it doesn’t matter what anybody else
says. What I am saying is that family members who love each other are
working things out together, even if it means that some of them have
to make compromises.

APP: Haggis was visited by 10 Scientologists among Tommy Davis, Mark
Isham, Terry Jastrow, Anne Archer, Sky Dayton who are celebrities and
they were not able be to change his mind about his resignation. What
is your conclusion of this?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: There was no reason for Paul Haggis to resign because
he never was a Scientologist. He didn’t read the first book that
Scientologists study, he never believed that he was a spiritual being,
he doesn’t believe in past lives, etc. This is like a Christian who
doesn’t believe in Christ. Haggis can shovel his resignation. Only a
person can resign who was a Scientologist, and a real Scientologist
will not resign because he or she knows that real Scientology does
work and contains very valuable truth.

APP: There are more allegations in the New Yorker about physical
abuses. Do you believe that the current leader David Miscavige of the
Church of Scientology is abusive?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I didn’t believe that there were abuses until Tommy
Davis admitted to the SP Times that there were many beatings but he
insisted that the man who is now married to Mosey in Texas did the
beatings. He is now DM’s major opponent. My point is: even if DM never
did beat anyone, he kept the abuser(s) and non-Scientologists on staff
(no real Scientologist is an abuser because that is contrary to the
religion) for many years and that makes him not innocent, capable or a
Scientologist.

APP: Police isn’t called because a church policy forbids it?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I know for sure that L. Ron Hubbard never wanted a
violent person or offender on orgs lines. He would have called the
authorities and so should David Miscavige and others. Scientology
Ethics Officers are there to guide Scientologists to ethical behavior.
But unethical behavior that are law violations must be reported to the
authorities. I know that the real Ron want the authorities to lead
away those who commit crimes. The orgs are no place for such people
and no such people should be protected by orgs.

APP: What is KSW?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Keeping Scientology Working. Ron noticed that people
altered it, so he wrote a policy and asked Scientologists to keep the
religion and technology pure and original and keep Scientology
working. But if alteration of Scientology drops into Scientology from
the highest level through an impostor, Scientology is altered despite
KSW.

APP: Can you explain what Tom Cruise is talking on that YouTube Video?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: He is not nuts but talking to Scientologists who
understand what he is saying. He basically says that he is proud to be
a Scientologist and feels that it is privilege. He wants to help
people and says that he knows that Scientology technology helps people
beyond just putting their bodies together after an accident. He means
spiritual help. He says that Keeping Scientology Working is most
important to keep the technology pure to help other people. He had big
spiritual wins in Scientology and that he wants other people having
them too. He wants Scientologists to be more active in helping people
through Scientology. He wants Scientology to be disseminated and tells
Scientologists to reach out and make the planet more ethical and not
being held back by own out-ethical behavior. He says that he doesn’t
hesitate to stop out ethical-behavior committed by others because he
is applying ethics strictly to himself. He respects people who do that
with others and he is willing to help.

APP: Why didn’t he say so in a way anyone can understand?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Scientologists understand what he is talking about.
It was an internal video just for Scientologists not for other people.
I have no doubt that Tom Cruise considers himself to be an Honorary
Sea Org member and there is nothing wrong with it. He asks
Scientologists to give it all they got to build a better world. He
says that Scientology works in all areas of the world better than
anything else and that’s why he considers Scientology the authority in
many fields. He doesn’t suggest anything illegal. He says just feeling
good as Scientologist is not good enough and that Scientologists
should be more engaged. He says that he met many leaders in all walks
of life and that they are very happy getting help and that they depend
on people who are able to help and that Scientologists can help them.
He says that if Scientologists don’t know how to do it, they should
study more to apply Scientology correctly because people are turning
to Scientologists for help. He says by studying, Scientologists
wouldn’t be overwhelmed by whatever is being thrown at them. He cracks
up mentioning that he was asked by some non-Scientologist if he ever
met a SP. (A SP is a person that suppresses others. SPs are people
like for example Hitler or any other person who keeps people down.)
What he is saying about SPs is that hopefully one day, there is peace
and the last SP surrenders and leaves people alone, and people
surround that SP and say: Wow, you are of these guys who suppressed
others, I read about your kind in history books. He says that
Scientologists should not run from these people but that there is
technology to handle such suppressive persons. He says that SPs don’t
come to him because don’t have the guts to confront him. (I think he
is talking of big time SPs. Not all SPs are having same influence.
Some run countries and others e-shock people, and yet others are just
bums in the street with as good as no power whatsoever.)

APP: Are we talking the same video? The one that made Anonymous so
angry?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Yes, that one. He says that he would like to go on
vacations and take life easy but he doesn’t do it because he rather
works to distribute Scientology because he knows that Scientology can
help so many people. He says when he looks at the condition of the
world, he can’t just sit there and do nothing. He has to do something
to change things to the better. He can’t live with himself if he
doesn’t do that. He is trying to encourage Scientologists to be less
passive in distributing Scientology technology. He says that he
carries his responsibilities in this regards but he still feels he has
to do more. He says that he can see it in the look of the eyes of some
Scientologists who are as active as he is and some are spectators who
think that it is easy for him to distribute Scientology because he is
Tom Cruise. He said, he cut that attitude from his life. He tells
people that they either are Scientologists or not. He feels that there
is no time to distribute Scientology slowly because the planet needs
help fast. He says that Scientologists have the responsibility to
educate and create the reality that Scientology can indeed make things
better for people by changing old ways of the planet that didn’t
really work. He asks Scientologists to have compassion, love and
consistency to change the world, and he says despite it is a rocky
road often, he has a blast doing so and it is fun because nothing is
better than improving conditions. He asks himself everyday if he did
everything he could to better the world. He is feeling for the people
who are not having the Scientology technology that he and other
Scientologists are having because they depend on Scientologists to
bring it to them. He needs more help by Scientologists to get
Scientology distributed and don’t want them to just stand around but
he is asking them to be more hands-on in helping others to understand
and applying the technology that he discovered as so valuable. He says
he is very direct in the ways he does all things and he doesn’t dance
around things. As a sum, he a nice person who had great spiritual wins
in Scientology and wants to help other people to better lives.

APP: Wow. Thanks for translating that. But you didn’t like the
Stauffenberg movie?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Right. Tom Cruise’s first intuition that something is
foul with that story was correct.

APP: Did Hubbard ever say that a lot of money can be made with
religion?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Sounds like something L. Ron Hubbard’s impostor would
say. The real Ron knew that we need a better world and that all the
money in the world won’t help you much when the planet sucks.

APP: Do you think that Jason Beghe was a Scientologist?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. I think just like Haggis, he joined for other but
religious reasons. He is close with Mosey’s husband who is an
impostor. I find Jason Beghe instable in his opinions. He once highly
recommended Scientology and later attacked it. A Scientologist might
be in disagreement with His Cobness or others, but he never will
defame the religion or L. Ron Hubbard as Beghe has done.

APP: Who is His Cobness?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: David Miscavige, Chairman of the Board.

APP: Beghe calls his auditing a rip off.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: If not real auditing as by L. Ron Hubbard, the real
founder, auditing might not help that much, and in view of that, yes,
that would be a rip off. But Beghe never called it a rip off in all
these years before, only when he heard of the Anonymous Mob, he felt
inspired to attack what he recommended before. My point is, those
people who are many years in Scientology (which also includes Tory
Christman) and then attack it, look like complete idiots. I knew
within a few days if I am going in the right direction or not.

APP: Do you believe that Mark Rathbun’s blog received 55,000 hits when
he published the Haggis resignation?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: For me, there is just one Mark or Marty Rathbun, and
he is the original Inspector General for Ethics. The Blog-Marty is his
impostor. Yes, it is possible to get these many hits and by not
telling that he is not the original Marty, he is basically lying to
all these people that he is the original Marty. I am sure there are
laws against this kind of deception.

APP: Do you work for OSA?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: No. DM is their highest boss, and he knows that I
think that he should not lead Scientology and that he received the
lead over Scientology by Jack Vistaril and not by the founder.
Accordingly, there are reservations on both sides. On top of it, they
know that Mosey’s husband is an impostor and they don’t tell me where
the original Marty is. In other words, there is no Scientological
relationship between me and OSA.

APP: Do you believe that there is a FBI investigation of the C of S?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: That investigation sure can’t involve L. Ron Hubbard
because just about any FBI field office wrote to me that he was never
of investigatory interest or electronic surveillance. But it is
possible that the FBI opened the case, although I find it odd that the
C of S doesn’t know of that and never got any FBI visit. If what they
have doesn’t justify a visit at the INT Base, what do they have?

APP: INT Base?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Highest management base, David Miscavige’s Org.

APP: Claire Headley said she was pressured in having two abortions. Do
you believe this?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: It is possible, and abortions are violating the
founder’s findings. Ron explained in the DMSMH, also called Book 1
what horrible effects abortion has on thetans. He says, the woman who
aborts is on tonelevel 1.1., which is covert hostility. There you can
see the difference between Claire and me. I would have not aborted
under any circumstances. Claire rather aborted than leaving the Sea
Org for a Class IV org.

APP: Do you think that David Miscavige leaves a luxurious lifestyle?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Seems so but he probably thinks that the Pope does
that too, so it’s okay with him.

APP: Did he received a Vyrus 985 C3 4V, a motorcycle with a retail
price of seventy thousand dollars by Scientologists?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I believe Tommy Davis acknowledged this. The founder,
L. Ron Hubbard didn’t get any expensive gifts. I remember some in the
Munich org discussing buying him Bavarian Lederhosen, of which I know
he wouldn’t have worn them. Well, I think the real Ron never received
any gift not even that gift that I sent him for his birthday from the
Munich org. It was a small side table, perfect for an office. The top
showed the chart of the old world. It was beautiful. Ron was worth all
the gold and silver of the world but that table didn't cost more than
100 German Marks.

APP: The New Yorker indicated that the church spoils Tom Cruise with
expensive parties, and gifts, and that Sea Org members fixed his
airport hangar in Burbank. Is that something you would approve of?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I don’t think that Tom Cruise can’t afford these
things and he might not even want them. To me it looks as those are
the ideas of DM, and he shouldn’t throw MEST at Tom Cruise. Original
Scientology and a healthy, sane, and true place where he can study and
be himself without traitors turning one day on him, that is probably
what he likes just as any other Scientologist likes and those are the
best gifts.

APP: Did you get that Paul Haggis hasn't changed his opinion on
psychotropic drugs being overprescribed for children?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Overprescribed? That means that he approves of them
in some poor children. Makes me understand why his kids rather wanted
to go to a boarding school than staying with him. If that was his
opinion while in the orgs, I am shocked again. This proves again that
he never was a Scientologist because a real Scientologist thinks that
NO CHILD should be put on psychotropic drugs and that they are also
harmful for adults.

APP: The New Yorker mentions Gerry Armstrong. Is that the guy who said
“We don’t have to prove a goddam thing. We don’t have to prove shit.
We just have to allege it.”?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: That's him. He's one of those who conceal that Jack
"Apollo" Vistaril was the founder's impostor, and he blames Ron on
what the founder did. I always thought that Armstrong just attempted
to forge L. Ron Hubbard but I learned now in the New Yorker that he
didn't just attempt it but that he really forged.

APP: You are talking "affirmations"?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: They were never the founder's. I learned that
Armstrong destroyed these papers deliberately but repeats the lie that
those were the founder's. What is more suspicious than Armstrong
destroying his "evidence" to protect a forgery? Mosey's husband posted
not long ago that he puts his hat off before Armstrong. The original
Marty Rathbun in Scientology never would.

APP: What was in those church files that Armstrong took with him?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I assume other forgeries or stuff about the
impostor's life. By not clarifying that the founder was impostored by
a doppelganger and by asking the impostor's records back through the
courts, the Church of Scientology made these papers valuable. People
thought that when the church wants them back, they must be authentic.
It is stupid. They should have told Armstrong to clean his windows
with those because those are not the records of the founder.

APP: The church paid him USD 800,000 to keep his mouth shut?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: He also violated that agreement and by paying him
this money, the Church indirectly confirmed that they cover something
up. But they cover up the impostor's actions because there is nothing
to cover up in the life of the real founder Ron.

APP: Some people drew quite a lot of money from the Church…

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I believe some people infiltrate the church for no
other purpose to sue later and to get rich.

APP: There is a lot of talk of OT III. Independents want to skip the
level and the church says it needs to stay word for word as it is now
applied in the church. What do you think?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: The real founder wrote OT level but I am sure that
they were altered shortly after they left his desk by the psychiatric
infiltration and pushed down the church lines in altered form in the
handwriting of the impostor or another forger.

APP: Why didn't the founder walk into his organizations and correct
what was changed.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: I am sure that he did until the point where he could
not go in any organization anymore because SEGNPMSS hired snipers with
sharp monition to stop him going in and discovering the massive
psychiatric takeover.

APP: So, you think Scientology as by the real founder is lost?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Not necessarily. If the CIA and other American secret
services can be compelled to come forward with all their footage of
what the real Ron did, wrote and said, it could be perfectly restored.
But I don't see anyone but me who wants that. Seems most others are
happy with the impostor version, because they are complete fools.

APP: Didn't Speaker Tommy Davis tell the New Yorker that the
technology used in Scientology orgs was checked against "Hubbard's
original dictation".

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Recordings can be altered, besides the impostor had a
similar voice and they checked against his dictations.

APP: Do you think that a homosexual person or lesbian person is a
pervert?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: As I explained already, it is a person who was
tricked into taking a body of the gender that he didn't have in his or
her former lifetimes and that he wouldn't had chosen on himself. We
can either overlook these psychiatric secret service crimes and wait
until it is done to anybody and until anybody is gay or lesbian and
until there are no straight people anymore, or we rather tell all
those people who are attracted to their own sex what happened to them
and make sure that they have the right to chose the gender that they
really want.

APP: The New Yorker wrote that Tommy Davis acknowledged that some of
Hubbard's medical records don't add up to what is being told. How do
you explain that?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Duh! Two different men, two different lives. The
founder and Jack "Apollo" Vistaril were not the same men.

APP: Fletcher Prouty said that Hubbard had an "intelligence
background" and some of his records were sheep-dished…

BARBARA SCHWARZ: (interrupts) I am telling you, Jack Vistaril was a
SEGNPMSS/CIA double agent and particularly, the records that he isn't
the real founder of Scientology were sheep-dished… The CIA has a lot
of explaining to do.

APP: What about Paul Haggis’ therapy? He said it was helpful, and he
doesn't blame others anymore for his problems.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: You should add that this "therapy" appears to be
psychiatric or psychological therapy. It's funny what he said he
doesn't blame others anymore because all of what he told to the New
Yorker sounds like nothing but blame on Scientology, Scientologists,
and L. Ron Hubbard. He said, he finds psychiatric or psychological
therapy helpful but despite that Deborah Rennard left the church too,
they separated. So, how did this therapy help? It sure didn't help
their relationship.

APP: It’s scandalous that Daniel Montalvo didn't knew who Robert
Redford is. Do you agree?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: (laughs) There might be many 19-years old who sit
glued on the TV who don't know who Robert Redford is because they are
mainly interested in their own generation. Jason Beghe says that
Daniel never watched TV. Like most of his generation, he seems to be a
guy who rather sits behind a computer or watches on his computer. That
"innocent" 19-year old knew what computer hard drives and zip drives
are, and I believe he was accused of stealing such technical property
from the Scientology orgs. I don't buy Jason's Behge's version of
"Amish" Scientology. I think that Daniel was rather tech sassy just
like most kids of his generation.

APP: Do you think that the church will fairgame Haggis in two years on
a scandal that has nothing to do with Scientology?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Real Scientologists never would fairgame anyone and
as for the non-Scientologists who hang out in the orgs for short or
very long, I am sure that Paul Haggis knows what they are capable of.
It takes one to know one. He really is a piece of work. He covered his
tracks. He can do now whatever he wants and when the scandal blows
open, he thinks he can get away with it by saying: "See, I told
Lawrence Wright from the New Yorker in February 2011, I am being
fairgamed by Scientologists… I am an innocent bastard…"

APP: What do you say to those people who say that I'm your sock puppet
interviewer?

BARBARA SCHWARZ: Are you?

APP: That is getting us nowhere. But thanks for that interview and
your unique opinions. It's always a pleasure, Barbara. Take care.

BARBARA SCHWARZ: You too. Bye.