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Det de siger er ikke det du hører
Fra : Joakim


Dato : 15-12-08 07:49

Tænk lige over det når i åbner en avis eller ser et nyhedsindslag eller en
debat om MØ.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1228728195450&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The full horror of contemporary Middle East politics and debate is
comprehended by few in the West, largely because people aren't informed by
their political leaders, intellectuals and media.

Occasionally, the truth emerges, as on September 11, 2001, but soon is
reburied under mountains of obfuscation. After all, Iran's president called
for Israel to be wiped off the map, according to the official Iranian
translation, and The New York Times publishes an article analyzing whether
this ever happened.

I imagine exchanges like this: Middle Easterner (in Arabic): "We'll wipe you
out, kill your children and trample your cities into dust!" Translator (in
English): "He says that justified grievances about American aggression are
creating hurt feelings which can only be resolved by Western policy
changes."

These thoughts are inspired by at least four examples this week.

First, an Arabic-speaker writes me, "Right now I'm watching Himam as-Sa'id,
leader of the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood, on al-Aksa TV giving a speech
(or rather a rant). He's screaming about how the Islamic armies will turn
Palestine into a graveyard for the Jews." This is followed by threatening
the Jordan government as traitorous for making peace with Israel and "the
usual clichés." But then my friend concludes: "As we all know, this isn't
the sort of language the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood uses when speaking
English." For good measure, he inserts some links to Western newspaper
articles that claim the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood is really a moderate
organization with which Western governments should dialogue.

Then there are two recent interviews given by Palestinian Authority
Ambassador to Lebanon Abbas Zaki, who explains that the PA considers the US
an enemy. Of course, the Americans have been paying Zaki's salary for 14
years through direct aid and by persuading allies to donate money, backed a
Palestinian state and pressed Israel into many concession for the PA. But
none of this matters to Zaki and other senior Fatah leaders. In Arabic, they
are still hard-liners and anti-Americans.

In early November, Zaki gave a lecture explaining that moderation was just a
pretense and the goal was still Israel's destruction. In his words, given
the Arab nation's weakness and US power, "the PLO proceeds through phases,
without changing its strategy." Soon it would be in a position to bring
about Israel's collapse and drive "them out of all of Palestine."

ONE OF the main examples of nonsense substituting for serious analysis is
the fantasy of splitting Syria away from Iran. This notion is encouraged by
Syria's effective propaganda network and lots of Western helpers. A Lebanese
friend sends me a boatload of citations from Syrian officials promising
eternal loyalty to Iran. I believe them.

For example, Syria's ambassador to the United States explained on al-Jazeera
television in May, "Syria will not distance itself from Iran because our
ties with Iran are... [linked] to deep historic, cultural, social and
religious ties, common interests." An article by regime fan Rime Allaf in
the Novosti press agency on November 25 notes: "For three decades, the
Syrian-Iranian relationship has survived a sustained Western effort to break
the alliance... and to shift the politics of both regimes." But nothing will
weaken this partnership unless the regime in one of these countries falls.
Agreed.

The Washington Post's David Ottoway writes of how Syria needs and benefits
from the alliance with Iran. But he continues, "Western and Arab sources...
feel, nonetheless, that the Syrian-Iranian friendship is unnatural [and]
short-term." Syria's regime is thought too secular to stick with Teheran
very long. He also, however, provides extensive quotes from Syrian officials
who insist - with detailed arguments - that the alliance is here to stay.

Oh, by the way, the article is dated September 29, 1983.

FINALLY, IF you want to understand the current spectrum of public debate in
the Arab world, consider a television debate between Kamal al-Hilbawi,
director of the London Center for the Study of Terrorism, and political
analyst Nabil Yassin. The former is supposed to be the radical, the latter
the moderate.

Hilbawi endorses killing Israeli civilians, including children, because, he
says they're all potential soldiers. He claims, "In elementary school, they
pose the following math problem: 'In your village, there are 100 Arabs. If
you killed 40, how many Arabs would be left for you to kill?' This is taught
in the Israeli curriculum."

Yassin responds by saying he is against murdering civilians: "I condemn the
Israeli governments for teaching children such things, but I do not condemn
the child, who still doesn't know how he will kill the Arabs in 20 years'
time, when he becomes a soldier."

I read that just after helping my two kids with their math homework and I
guess I must have missed those equations. Actually, in my daughter's school
they're now studying Islam and Christianity, learning a fair, factual
picture of both religions.

There are, however, schools that teach that way. What Hilbawi described is
an almost precise rendition of Syrian second-grade textbooks, for example,
which contain math problems about killing Israelis.

At any rate, their debate shows us the permissible margin of discussion: The
Arab radical lies that Israel is a nation of genocidal killers; the moderate
retorts that of course it's true but the children aren't responsible for
being brainwashed by those evil monsters.

CERTAINLY, THE best Western strategy in today's Middle East is to cooperate
with relatively moderate states and groups opposed to the spread of radical
Islamism and Iranian-Syrian influence.

The first problem is that many in the West are more interested in courting
the extremists in the mistaken belief they'll change.

The second problem is that even those whose objective interests are
relatively moderate and parallel those of the West and Israel - even those
acknowledging this fact in private - aren't willing to speak and act along
these lines.

The third problem is that there are few moderates and that the spectrum of
debate is dominated by extremists and those who pretend to be radical for
safety's sake or to exploit militancy for their own advantage.

Oh, by the way, the program in which Arab viewers were told that Israeli
schools teach children to murder Arabs wasn't aired on the Hizbullah channel
but on the BBC's Arabic service. That's quite a service. Incitement to
terrorism thanks to British taxpayer money. Political insanity denied can be
contagious.


 
 
Ukendt (15-12-2008)
Kommentar
Fra : Ukendt


Dato : 15-12-08 09:11

Joakim wrote:
> Tænk lige over det når i åbner en avis eller ser et nyhedsindslag
> eller en debat om MØ.
>
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1228728195450&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
> Hilbawi endorses killing Israeli civilians, including children,
> because, he says they're all potential soldiers. He claims, "In
> elementary school, they pose the following math problem: 'In your
> village, there are 100 Arabs. If you killed 40, how many Arabs would
> be left for you to kill?' This is taught in the Israeli curriculum."
>
> Yassin responds by saying he is against murdering civilians: "I
> condemn the Israeli governments for teaching children such things,
> but I do not condemn the child, who still doesn't know how he will
> kill the Arabs in 20 years' time, when he becomes a soldier."
>
> I read that just after helping my two kids with their math homework
> and I guess I must have missed those equations. Actually, in my
> daughter's school they're now studying Islam and Christianity,
> learning a fair, factual picture of both religions.
>
> There are, however, schools that teach that way. What Hilbawi
> described is an almost precise rendition of Syrian second-grade
> textbooks, for example, which contain math problems about killing
> Israelis.

Man brugte samme type i Pakistan mens russerne var i Afghanistan, OG bøgerne
blev/bliver selvfølgelig brugt i masser af år senere. I det her tilfælde var
det vist amerikanskfremstillede skolebøger, man græmmes.
Også i Europa har vi stået sammen med radikale islamister, fordi de var imod
kommunismen. Nu har vi så kun de første tilbage at bekymre os om, men de kan
fortsætte i 100 år eller mere.




Joakim (15-12-2008)
Kommentar
Fra : Joakim


Dato : 15-12-08 10:10


"Knud Larsen" <mafishmaskela-snabela-yahoo.invalid> skrev i meddelelsen
news:003cf08b$0$10551$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

> Også i Europa har vi stået sammen med radikale islamister, fordi de var
> imod kommunismen. Nu har vi så kun de første tilbage at bekymre os om, men
> de kan fortsætte i 100 år eller mere.
>

Ja, hvem husker ikke det famøse billede af Lars Løkke Rasmussen sammen med
mujahedinerne i Afghanistan i 1988:

http://i2-images.tv2.dk/s/05/2743905-a4d19edf561d5b24686be6c51de7ce9c.jpeg

Det er Lars uden skæg, hvis nogen skulle være i tvivl.


Lyrik (15-12-2008)
Kommentar
Fra : Lyrik


Dato : 15-12-08 16:11

Joakim skrev:
> "Knud Larsen" <mafishmaskela-snabela-yahoo.invalid> skrev i meddelelsen
> news:003cf08b$0$10551$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> Også i Europa har vi stået sammen med radikale islamister, fordi de var
>> imod kommunismen. Nu har vi så kun de første tilbage at bekymre os om, men
>> de kan fortsætte i 100 år eller mere.
>>
>
> Ja, hvem husker ikke det famøse billede af Lars Løkke Rasmussen sammen med
> mujahedinerne i Afghanistan i 1988:
>
> http://i2-images.tv2.dk/s/05/2743905-a4d19edf561d5b24686be6c51de7ce9c.jpeg
>
> Det er Lars uden skæg, hvis nogen skulle være i tvivl.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Hvor morsomt det end er, så vil jeg gerne anføre at billedet ligner en
forfalskning! Farverne i Lars Løkke Rasmussens portræt, og lyset er
helt anderledes end på mujahedinerne.
Det er et stykke cut-and-paste-arbejde. Tydeligvis.

--
MvH
Jens "Lyrik" Bech
Have a nice day.



Joakim (21-12-2008)
Kommentar
Fra : Joakim


Dato : 21-12-08 08:09


"Lyrik" <lyrik@heaven.dk> skrev i meddelelsen
news:gi5s2j$1kce$1@newsbin.cybercity.dk...
> Joakim skrev:
>> "Knud Larsen" <mafishmaskela-snabela-yahoo.invalid> skrev i meddelelsen
>> news:003cf08b$0$10551$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>>> Også i Europa har vi stået sammen med radikale islamister, fordi de var
>>> imod kommunismen. Nu har vi så kun de første tilbage at bekymre os om,
>>> men
>>> de kan fortsætte i 100 år eller mere.
>>>
>>
>> Ja, hvem husker ikke det famøse billede af Lars Løkke Rasmussen sammen
>> med
>> mujahedinerne i Afghanistan i 1988:
>>
>> http://i2-images.tv2.dk/s/05/2743905-a4d19edf561d5b24686be6c51de7ce9c.jpeg
>>
>> Det er Lars uden skæg, hvis nogen skulle være i tvivl.
>
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> Hvor morsomt det end er, så vil jeg gerne anføre at billedet ligner en
> forfalskning! Farverne i Lars Løkke Rasmussens portræt, og lyset er helt
> anderledes end på mujahedinerne.
> Det er et stykke cut-and-paste-arbejde. Tydeligvis.
>

Det er en efterligning i mangel på bedre. Det originale foto af Lars Løkke
Rasmussen iført pyjamaslignende gevandter og bærende på en AK-47 kan ses i
bogen: "Den såkaldte krig mod terror" skrevet af Karsten Lauridsen.

http://www.pressefotografforbundet.dk/index.php?id=3570&action=info


Hans Christian Vang (15-12-2008)
Kommentar
Fra : Hans Christian Vang


Dato : 15-12-08 17:18


"Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:4945fe1e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...

>claim the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood is really a moderate
> organization with which Western governments should dialogue.



Moderate islam organisationer eksisterer s'gu da ikke, mand... You're being
duped, all of youse.


@ (15-12-2008)
Kommentar
Fra : @


Dato : 15-12-08 17:28

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:18:10 +0100, "Hans Christian Vang"
<hcvang@vangcreative.dk> wrote:

>
>"Joakim" <ncm_abfjern@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
>news:4945fe1e$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>>claim the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood is really a moderate
>> organization with which Western governments should dialogue.
>
>
>
>Moderate islam organisationer eksisterer s'gu da ikke, mand... You're being
>duped, all of youse.


ordet dialog er nutidens trylleord

som tilsyneladende kan bortrylle al muhamedanismens vold, terror,
kvindeundertrykkelse, racisme og anden dårligdom


hvad nytte kan der være i at gå i dialog med personer som ser sig selv
i besiddelse af den evige indiskutable guddomelige sandhed om ALT


sådanne personers eneste interesse i dialogen er at få alle andre til
at rette ind efter deres ønsker



--
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends.
You talk to your enemies.
/Moshe Dayan/

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