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Israel uden skyld i eksplosionen, som dræb~
Fra : Translat


Dato : 13-06-06 20:08

Israel er uden skyld i eksplosionen, som dræbte syv personer på en
Gaza-strand i fredags. Den israelske avis Haaretz skriver følgende i
artiklen: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/726162.html 13/06/2006

IDF probe:
GAZA BEACH BLAST NOT CAUSED BY WAYWARD ARMY SHELL

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent

An Israel Defense Forces committee has concluded that the deaths of
seven members of a Palestinian family at a Gaza beach last Friday were
not caused by an errant IDF artillery shell.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz, IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz and Major
General Meir Kalifi, who headed the committee, held a press conference
in Tel Aviv Tuesday evening to present the probe's findings.

"We have enough findings to back up the suspicion that the intention to
describe this as an Israeli event is simply not correct," Peretz said,
continuing, "The accumulating evidence proves that this incident was
not due to Israeli forces."

The committee found that the Palestinians were not killed by an Israeli
artillery shell, as had been assumed by the foreign press and much of
the Israeli media. The probe concludes that the blast was probably
caused by an explosive device buried in the sand, but does not
determine categorically whether it was planted by Palestinians or was
an old IDF dud.

The conclusions of the panel came after days of debate, and relies on
an analysis of the exact time of each artillery strike, the location of
each shell's landing and the shrapnel extracted from the bodies of
wounded Palestinians evacuated to Israeli hospitals.

IDF gradually moves away from accepting responsibility
Shortly after the incident occurred, the army was leaning toward
accepting the assumption that the disaster was caused by an errant
Israeli artillery shell. While the IDF spokesman's initial announcement
did not formally accept responsibility, it expressed deep regret for
the deaths and announced an end to the artillery fire on Gaza until the
incident had been investigated. The foreign media unequivocally blamed
Israel for the deaths, and the Israel media (including Haaretz) tended
to do the same.

But as time passed, and more data was amassed, the IDF's assessment
changed: Some pieces of data seemed to rule out the possibility that an
Israeli shell was responsible, while others bolstered the theory that a
Palestinian mine was to blame.

The importance of the committee's findings are obviously mitigated by
the fact that ultimately, the IDF is being cleared by an IDF
investigation. This is not an international inquiry, or even an
external, civilian inquiry. Thus the next step will be leveraging these
findings to affect public opinion - Israeli (where the battle is
already largely won; even human rights organizations cast doubt on the
Palestinian claims on Monday), international and even Palestinian.

Kalifi's committee examined a great deal of material, including film
footage shot by Arab television stations at the scene. Some of the
findings have already been reported: that five of the shells definitely
landed some 250 meters from the beach, and that the explosion occurred
at least eight minutes after the missing sixth shell was fired.
However, this evidence has now been bolstered by three new findings:

* The shrapnel. Three people wounded in the blast are now hospitalized
in Israel. Shrapnel was apparently removed from their bodies, and this
is likely to reinforce the conclusion that the explosion was caused by
a bomb rather than a shell.

* The crater. Based on photographs, the crater left on the beach by the
blast seems to have been made by an explosion from below (a mine), not
a hit from above (a shell).

* Intelligence. Israel has amassed considerable information indicating
that over the past few weeks, ever since Israeli commandos infiltrated
Gaza and killed a rocket-launching cell, Hamas has been systematically
mining the northern Gaza beach in an attempt to keep Israeli commandos
from landing there again.

The main hole in the army's evidence is the missing sixth shell, the
first to be fired whose landing site has not been determined. From an
examination of the cannon, the army is convinced that the shell could
not have fallen on the beach, almost half a kilometer from its intended
target. But there is no firm proof of this, only an educated guess.

Moreover, the Palestinians will have their own experts analyzing the
shrapnel removed from the wounded treated in Gaza, and they will
doubtless present conclusions contrary to those of the Israeli experts.

In the past, Israel has occasionally succeeded in refuting
responsibility for casualties. A good example is the now discredited
claim that Israel massacred Palestinians in Jenin in April 2002. This
time, however, the game may already be lost.

Nevertheless, the IDF intends to appeal to Palestinian public opinion
as well, hoping that doubts about the cause of the blast will undermine
public support for Hamas, and specifically for its resumption of
attacks on Israel. This method worked last September, when Hamas
weaponry exploded during a rally in Jabalya and killed 20 bystanders.
Hamas accused Israel and launched a rocket barrage, but the Palestinian
public did not buy that explanation and Palestinian doubts, combined
with the IDF's harsh response, caused Hamas to cease its fire two days
later


 
 
Ingolf (13-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Ingolf


Dato : 13-06-06 20:29


"Translat" <kongaead@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1150225694.541170.136240@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Israel er uden skyld i eksplosionen, som dræbte syv personer på en
Gaza-strand i fredags. Den israelske avis Haaretz skriver følgende i
artiklen: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/726162.html 13/06/2006

IDF probe:
GAZA BEACH BLAST NOT CAUSED BY WAYWARD ARMY SHELL

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent

An Israel Defense Forces committee has concluded that the deaths of
seven members of a Palestinian family at a Gaza beach last Friday were
not caused by an errant IDF artillery shell.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz, IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz and Major
General Meir Kalifi, who headed the committee, held a press conference
in Tel Aviv Tuesday evening to present the probe's findings.

"We have enough findings to back up the suspicion that the intention to
describe this as an Israeli event is simply not correct," Peretz said,
continuing, "The accumulating evidence proves that this incident was
not due to Israeli forces."

The committee found that the Palestinians were not killed by an Israeli
artillery shell, as had been assumed by the foreign press and much of
the Israeli media. The probe concludes that the blast was probably
caused by an explosive device buried in the sand, but does not
determine categorically whether it was planted by Palestinians or was
an old IDF dud.

The conclusions of the panel came after days of debate, and relies on
an analysis of the exact time of each artillery strike, the location of
each shell's landing and the shrapnel extracted from the bodies of
wounded Palestinians evacuated to Israeli hospitals.

IDF gradually moves away from accepting responsibility
Shortly after the incident occurred, the army was leaning toward
accepting the assumption that the disaster was caused by an errant
Israeli artillery shell. While the IDF spokesman's initial announcement
did not formally accept responsibility, it expressed deep regret for
the deaths and announced an end to the artillery fire on Gaza until the
incident had been investigated. The foreign media unequivocally blamed
Israel for the deaths, and the Israel media (including Haaretz) tended
to do the same.

But as time passed, and more data was amassed, the IDF's assessment
changed: Some pieces of data seemed to rule out the possibility that an
Israeli shell was responsible, while others bolstered the theory that a
Palestinian mine was to blame.

The importance of the committee's findings are obviously mitigated by
the fact that ultimately, the IDF is being cleared by an IDF
investigation. This is not an international inquiry, or even an
external, civilian inquiry. Thus the next step will be leveraging these
findings to affect public opinion - Israeli (where the battle is
already largely won; even human rights organizations cast doubt on the
Palestinian claims on Monday), international and even Palestinian.

Kalifi's committee examined a great deal of material, including film
footage shot by Arab television stations at the scene. Some of the
findings have already been reported: that five of the shells definitely
landed some 250 meters from the beach, and that the explosion occurred
at least eight minutes after the missing sixth shell was fired.
However, this evidence has now been bolstered by three new findings:

* The shrapnel. Three people wounded in the blast are now hospitalized
in Israel. Shrapnel was apparently removed from their bodies, and this
is likely to reinforce the conclusion that the explosion was caused by
a bomb rather than a shell.

* The crater. Based on photographs, the crater left on the beach by the
blast seems to have been made by an explosion from below (a mine), not
a hit from above (a shell).

* Intelligence. Israel has amassed considerable information indicating
that over the past few weeks, ever since Israeli commandos infiltrated
Gaza and killed a rocket-launching cell, Hamas has been systematically
mining the northern Gaza beach in an attempt to keep Israeli commandos
from landing there again.

The main hole in the army's evidence is the missing sixth shell, the
first to be fired whose landing site has not been determined. From an
examination of the cannon, the army is convinced that the shell could
not have fallen on the beach, almost half a kilometer from its intended
target. But there is no firm proof of this, only an educated guess.

Moreover, the Palestinians will have their own experts analyzing the
shrapnel removed from the wounded treated in Gaza, and they will
doubtless present conclusions contrary to those of the Israeli experts.

In the past, Israel has occasionally succeeded in refuting
responsibility for casualties. A good example is the now discredited
claim that Israel massacred Palestinians in Jenin in April 2002. This
time, however, the game may already be lost.

Nevertheless, the IDF intends to appeal to Palestinian public opinion
as well, hoping that doubts about the cause of the blast will undermine
public support for Hamas, and specifically for its resumption of
attacks on Israel. This method worked last September, when Hamas
weaponry exploded during a rally in Jabalya and killed 20 bystanders.
Hamas accused Israel and launched a rocket barrage, but the Palestinian
public did not buy that explanation and Palestinian doubts, combined
with the IDF's harsh response, caused Hamas to cease its fire two days
later

Ja bæ og bræk, og hvis UN, eller andre fordømmer Israel, så stemmer USA nok
VETO, igen igen igen igen igen igen?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?referrerid=22705&t=196634
http://www.caabu.org/press/documents/vetoes.html




Translat (13-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Translat


Dato : 13-06-06 21:16

Ingolf wrote:

> Ja bæ og bræk, og hvis UN, eller andre fordømmer Israel, så stemmer USA nok
> VETO, igen igen igen igen igen igen?
> http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?referrerid=22705&t=196634
> http://www.caabu.org/press/documents/vetoes.html

Kunne du ikke forholde dig til sagen? Sagen drejer sig om, hvorvidt den
eksplosion, som dræbte syv personer på stranden, var forårsaget af
israel. Den drejer sig ikke om vetoer i U.N.

Bent


Ingolf (13-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Ingolf


Dato : 13-06-06 22:11

"Translat" <kongaead@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1150229751.960659.170420@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ingolf wrote:

> Ja bæ og bræk, og hvis UN, eller andre fordømmer Israel, så stemmer USA
> nok
> VETO, igen igen igen igen igen igen?
> http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?referrerid=22705&t=196634
> http://www.caabu.org/press/documents/vetoes.html

Kunne du ikke forholde dig til sagen? Sagen drejer sig om, hvorvidt den
eksplosion, som dræbte syv personer på stranden, var forårsaget af
israel. Den drejer sig ikke om vetoer i U.N.

Jo, men du har nok misforstået mig. Uanset hvad der sker i UN af
resolutioner, så bliver det vetoet ned af USA.

Jeg er totalt enig med dig i at det Israel har gjort er noget forbandet
svineri. Men som sagen foreligger så er det påstand imod påstand, og derfor
kan Israel altid få ret, desværre! Det er jo en kamp imod terrorisme som
ligger på dagsordnen, både i USA og UN. Selvom det intet har med sagen at
gøre.

Du ved det gamle Mossad logo, havde nogle tekster på deres logo Det undrede
jeg mig over og fik det oversat. Tekstens betød "By deception, thou shall
make war". Minder det dig om noget vi har idag? For omkring 1½ år siden blev
teksten ændret.

FY FOR SATAN at dem selv udnævnte folk, GUDS folk, kan have sådan et skilt
på deres egen efterretningsorganisation. Jeg opfatter det som direkte
ONDSKAB! Bare tag episoden da de nakkede en gammel mand i en rullestol, med
raketter fra en helikoter!.



Per Rønne (14-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Per Rønne


Dato : 14-06-06 02:41

Ingolf <dont_spam_ingolf@excite.com> wrote:

> Jeg er totalt enig med dig i at det Israel har gjort er noget forbandet
> svineri.

Hvordan kan det være israelsk »svineri« at en sandsynlig Hamas-mine
sprænger, og dræber syv palæstinensere?
--
Per Erik Rønne
http://www.RQNNE.dk

Carl (14-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Carl


Dato : 14-06-06 06:53

> Kunne du ikke forholde dig til sagen? Sagen drejer sig om, hvorvidt den
> eksplosion, som dræbte syv personer på stranden, var forårsaget af
> israel. Den drejer sig ikke om vetoer i U.N.
>
> Jo, men du har nok misforstået mig. Uanset hvad der sker i UN af
> resolutioner, så bliver det vetoet ned af USA.
>
> Jeg er totalt enig med dig i at det Israel har gjort er noget forbandet
> svineri. Men som sagen foreligger så er det påstand imod påstand, og
derfor
> kan Israel altid få ret, desværre! Det er jo en kamp imod terrorisme som
> ligger på dagsordnen, både i USA og UN. Selvom det intet har med sagen at
> gøre.
>
> Du ved det gamle Mossad logo, havde nogle tekster på deres logo Det
undrede
> jeg mig over og fik det oversat. Tekstens betød "By deception, thou shall
> make war". Minder det dig om noget vi har idag? For omkring 1½ år siden
blev
> teksten ændret.
>
> FY FOR SATAN at dem selv udnævnte folk, GUDS folk, kan have sådan et skilt
> på deres egen efterretningsorganisation. Jeg opfatter det som direkte
> ONDSKAB! Bare tag episoden da de nakkede en gammel mand i en rullestol,
med
> raketter fra en helikoter!.
>
Hamas har erklæret Israel krig, så har Israel ret og pligt til at forsvare
sig selv.
Mere er der ikke at sige om det. I en krig taber den svageste og hvis den
svageste ikke ønsker at overgive sig, så dør de. Sådan er krig og sådan vil
alle krige ende.
Hamas har muligheden for total overgivelse, men det er deres eget valg, ikke
Israels.

Carl




Joakim (14-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Joakim


Dato : 14-06-06 07:55

"Ingolf" <dont_spam_ingolf@excite.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:448f29d9$0$162$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...

> FY FOR SATAN at dem selv udnævnte folk, GUDS folk, kan have sådan et skilt
> på deres egen efterretningsorganisation. Jeg opfatter det som direkte
> ONDSKAB! Bare tag episoden da de nakkede en gammel mand i en rullestol,
> med raketter fra en helikoter!.
>
Den gamle mand var Israels Osama Bin Laden. Sheik Ahmed Yassin grundlagde
terrororganisationen Hamas og var dens åndelige leder frem til sin død.
Ville du anvende samme stærke gloser, hvis USA "nakkede" OBL?

»Den politiske gren, ikke den militære, står bag Hamas' politik. Den
militære gren udfører den politik, der udstikkes af den politiske gren«.
- Ahmed Yassin i et interview til det arabiske magasin al-Mujallah i 2001-




Henrik Svendsen (14-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Henrik Svendsen


Dato : 14-06-06 09:08

On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:55:03 +0200, Joakim skrev:

> "Ingolf" <dont_spam_ingolf@excite.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:448f29d9$0$162$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
>
>> FY FOR SATAN at dem selv udnævnte folk, GUDS folk, kan have sådan et skilt
>> på deres egen efterretningsorganisation. Jeg opfatter det som direkte
>> ONDSKAB! Bare tag episoden da de nakkede en gammel mand i en rullestol,
>> med raketter fra en helikoter!.
>>
> Den gamle mand var Israels Osama Bin Laden. Sheik Ahmed Yassin grundlagde
> terrororganisationen Hamas og var dens åndelige leder frem til sin død.

Menachem Begin var leder af terrororganisationen Irgun og blev
senere leder af Israel.

Yitzhak Shamir var leder af terrororginsationen Lehi og blev
senere leder af Israel.


> Ville du anvende samme stærke gloser, hvis USA "nakkede" OBL?

Ville du have anvendt samme stærke gloser, hvis Amerika havde
nakket Begin og Shamir?

> »Den politiske gren, ikke den militære, står bag Hamas' politik.

Begin og Shamir var var både terrorister og i allerhøjeste
grad politiske ledere.


> Den
> militære gren udfører den politik, der udstikkes af den politiske gren«.

Begin og Shamir var til forskel fra den blinde mand i
rullestolen i stand til selv at udføre diverse blodige
terroranslag - og gjorde det.


--
"If a lie is repeated often enough all the dumb jackasses in
the world not only get to believe it, they even swear by it."
--Billy Boy Franklin

Frank (15-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Frank


Dato : 15-06-06 09:51

Hej

"Ingolf" <dont_spam_ingolf@excite.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:448f29d9$0$162$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...

> Du ved det gamle Mossad logo, havde nogle tekster på deres logo Det
> undrede jeg mig over og fik det oversat. Tekstens betød "By deception,
> thou shall make war". Minder det dig om noget vi har idag? For omkring 1½
> år siden blev teksten ændret.

Nej - jeg kender ikke det gamle Mossad logo - har du et link til et billed?
Min storebrors lillesøsters mand er Israeler og kan læse hebraisk for mig.

Så vidt jeg kan se er Mossads motto: "Where no counsel is, the people fall,
but in the multitude of counselors there is safety."

"By way of deception - The making and unmaking of a Mossad Officer" er
derimod en bog af Victor Ostrovsky.

Mvh
Frank
--
If we have to use force, it is because we are America. We are the
indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.





Henrik Svendsen (15-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Henrik Svendsen


Dato : 15-06-06 12:52

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 10:51:11 +0200, Frank skrev:

> Hej
>
> "Ingolf" <dont_spam_ingolf@excite.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:448f29d9$0$162$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
>
>> Du ved det gamle Mossad logo, havde nogle tekster på deres logo Det
>> undrede jeg mig over og fik det oversat. Tekstens betød "By deception,
>> thou shall make war". Minder det dig om noget vi har idag? For omkring 1½
>> år siden blev teksten ændret.
>
> Nej - jeg kender ikke det gamle Mossad logo - har du et link til et billed?
> Min storebrors lillesøsters mand er Israeler og kan læse hebraisk for mig.
>
> Så vidt jeg kan se er Mossads motto: "Where no counsel is, the people fall,
> but in the multitude of counselors there is safety."

Logoet har vist ændret sig - eller også er der to logoer. Et
hurtigt opslag med "mossad logo" på "google images" viser:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=%22mossad+logo%22&btnG=Search


Her er de to forskellige mossad-logoer fra mainstream.

Den gamle
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/africa/11/29/kenya.mossad/
Den nye
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3020717,00.html

Her er en forklaring til den ene tekst:
http://100777.com/node/431





--
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are
the ones you want to concentrate on." - George W Bush

Per Rønne (15-06-2006)
Kommentar
Fra : Per Rønne


Dato : 15-06-06 17:30

Frank <far@nospam.dk> wrote:

> Min storebrors lillesøsters mand

Og din storebror er så kun din halvbroder, så han har en lillesøster,
der hverken er din store- eller lillesøster?

Ja, mine forældre fik kun ét kuld, alle tre drenge, og sammen.
--
Per Erik Rønne
http://www.RQNNE.dk

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