---

Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine
within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult
your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn
out of context:

1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
God.

2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power
he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily,
verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he
seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine
own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath
sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also
the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not
all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon
nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom
he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my
Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He
is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God
why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then
couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?"
Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer
(Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time
nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God
is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any
time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that
Jesus was not God.

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of
Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than
I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus
responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that
is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself
and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither
came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear
evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with
God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in
St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father
which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into
the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he
would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he
would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of
another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
therefore Jesus is not God.

Conclusion
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
basis have you come to believe otherwise?

My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is
false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented
in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.


What is the word of God about Jesus:

A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are
doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him!
When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an
19:34,35).

And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have
indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it
and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down
crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and
it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the
heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an
19:88-93).

Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
3:59).

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the
heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)

B. Regarding Jesus being God:
And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
everything. (Quran 5:116,117)

C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary,
the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified
him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no
knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not
slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is
Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will
assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day
he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)

http://www.islamtoday.net/english/

---

<al7yatkalima3@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1146056741.109166.80660@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
> second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
> used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine
> within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult
> your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn
> out of context:
>
> 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
> When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
> limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
> knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
> son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
> His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
> admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
> proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
> God.
>
> 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
> While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power
> he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily,
> verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he
> seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine
> own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
> because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath
> sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also
> the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
> admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not
> all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
>
> 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
> God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon
> nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom
> he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my
> Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He
> is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God
> why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then
> couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?"
> Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer
> (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
> Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
> pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
> 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
> admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
> to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
>
> 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
> While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
> this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
> any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time
> nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God
> is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
> truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any
> time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that
> Jesus was not God.
>
> 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
> acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
> his own.
> Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
> equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of
> Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than
> I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus
> responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that
> is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself
> and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither
> came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear
> evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with
> God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in
> St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father
> which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into
> the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he
> would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he
> would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of
> another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
> therefore Jesus is not God.
>
> Conclusion
> The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
> about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
> not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
> basis have you come to believe otherwise?
>
> My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is
> false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented
> in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

Interessant læsning, men desværre holder argumenterne ikke. Disse forsøger
at forklare tingene ved hjælp af menneskelig logik og rationalitet. Gud er
udenfor menneskelig forklaring og fattevne, og ethvert forsøg på at
afvise/bevise Guds eksistens, Jesu guddommelighed er derfor dømt til at slå
fejl. Det er alene et spørgsmål om tro.

Selv betragter jeg mig som troende, men jeg tror ikke at Jesus var Gud eller
hans søn, og jeg tror heller ikke at Muhammed var hans profet.

td

---

>> Conclusion
>> The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
>> about God and Jesus.

Ja, hvordan var det nu lige med Abraham????

Hans døtre beskænkede ham med vin og lå med ham for at blive
besvangrede!!!!

Er det ikke noget i retning af det de sætter folk i fængsel for i
Tønder????

--
/Hekto
Ducati Pantah SL/M600 - Cagiva Elefant 650
www.hekto.dk  www.dfmc.dk/hekto
Ducatist og medlem af 'Geheime Motorrad Putzer Verein'
Alt godt fra dyreriget! Vilde Pantere og Elefanter!

---

Hekto <urxgb@urxgb.qxROT13> wrote in news:mn.d5997d642403ad20.41941
@urxgb.qxROT13:

> Hans døtre beskænkede ham med vin og lå med ham for at blive
> besvangrede!!!!
> Er det ikke noget i retning af det de sætter folk i fængsel for i
> Tønder????

Næ - det er at "kende" hinanden i bibelsk forstand.

---

http://www.n-tv.de/634520.html


Andy

---

> http://www.islamtoday.net/english/
>

http://www.jesusdressup.com/

---

Wat Ar Uyo taking aboudt??? Vi kan not sprechen inglish or isslim´sk... ?

* Mæ venstre fra styret *

<al7yatkalima3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146056741.109166.80660@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
> second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
> used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine
> within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult
> your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn
> out of context:
>
> 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
> When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
> limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
> knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
> son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
> His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
> admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
> proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
> God.
>
> 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
> While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power
> he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily,
> verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he
> seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine
> own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
> because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath
> sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also
> the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
> admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not
> all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
>
> 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
> God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon
> nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom
> he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my
> Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He
> is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God
> why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then
> couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?"
> Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer
> (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
> Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
> pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
> 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
> admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
> to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
>
> 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
> While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
> this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
> any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time
> nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God
> is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
> truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any
> time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that
> Jesus was not God.
>
> 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
> acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
> his own.
> Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
> equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of
> Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than
> I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus
> responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that
> is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself
> and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither
> came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear
> evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with
> God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in
> St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father
> which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into
> the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he
> would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he
> would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of
> another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
> therefore Jesus is not God.
>
> Conclusion
> The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
> about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
> not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
> basis have you come to believe otherwise?
>
> My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is
> false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented
> in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
>
> If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
> Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
>
>
> What is the word of God about Jesus:
>
> A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
> That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are
> doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him!
> When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an
> 19:34,35).
>
> And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have
> indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it
> and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down
> crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and
> it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the
> heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an
> 19:88-93).
>
> Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
> created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
> 3:59).
>
> People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
> not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
> the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
> spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
> 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
> on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the
> heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)
>
> B. Regarding Jesus being God:
> And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
> and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
> is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
> knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
> within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
> You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
> witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
> me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
> everything. (Quran 5:116,117)
>
> C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
> And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
> calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary,
> the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified
> him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
> variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no
> knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not
> slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is
> Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will
> assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day
> he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)
>
> http://www.islamtoday.net/english/
>

---

mlt skrev:

>Wat Ar Uyo taking aboudt??? Vi kan not sprechen inglish or isslim´sk... ?
>
Det er bare en gut som snakker om en gut på korset og en falsk profet
ved navn Muhammed. Den ægte ville aldrig tillade spam.

---

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:31:13 +0200, Michael
<michael@det.kunne.du.li.hva.din.spammer.invalid> wrote:

>>Wat Ar Uyo taking aboudt??? Vi kan not sprechen inglish or isslim´sk... ?
>>
>Det er bare en gut som snakker om en gut på korset og en falsk profet
>ved navn Muhammed. Den ægte ville aldrig tillade spam.

Hahaha.... Se DET er god værkstedshumor... ))

Det vil Kim Larsen aldrig forstå...

---

stop eller jeg beynder at tegne

"Alucard" <alucard44@hotmail.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:e4rv42h9eeurna9agb0ej7n3s82ud6r23i@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:31:13 +0200, Michael
> <michael@det.kunne.du.li.hva.din.spammer.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>Wat Ar Uyo taking aboudt??? Vi kan not sprechen inglish or isslim´sk...
>>>?
>>>
>>Det er bare en gut som snakker om en gut på korset og en falsk profet
>>ved navn Muhammed. Den ægte ville aldrig tillade spam.
>
> Hahaha.... Se DET er god værkstedshumor... ))
>
> Det vil Kim Larsen aldrig forstå...

---

fejl i email skrev:

>stop eller jeg beynder at tegne
>
Ikke for at lokke, men du tør ikke.

---

Alucard skrev:
>
>
> Det vil Kim Larsen aldrig forstå...

Hørte lige et hjørne af en vis Kim Larsen's optræden på Jelling-festivalen:
Kan bedst beskrives som "Gorm den gamle gnavne mand" :-|

--
Armand.
(der som mange troede at biograf-dokumentaren ville løse op på gammelt
nag, men nu nærmere tror at det virkelig har flået den gamle sure
2.violins sår åbne)

---

<al7yatkalima3@hotmail.com> wrote
newsgroup: dk.politik
news:1146056741.109166.80660@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
newsgroup: dk.videnskab
news:1146071897.325638.37880@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com
news:1146072089.525840.225790@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com
newsgroup: dk.videnskab.jura
news:1146072267.216422.70150@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com

> Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
> second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
> used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine
> within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult
> your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn
> out of context:
>
> 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
> When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
> limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
> knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
> son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
> His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
> admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
> proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
> God.
>
> 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
> While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power
> he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily,
> verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he
> seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine
> own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
> because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath
> sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also
> the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
> admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not
> all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.
>
> 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
> God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon
> nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom
> he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my
> Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He
> is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God
> why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then
> couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?"
> Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer
> (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
> Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
> pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
> 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
> admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
> to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.
>
> 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
> While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
> this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
> any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time
> nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God
> is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
> truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any
> time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that
> Jesus was not God.
>
> 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
> acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
> his own.
> Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
> equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of
> Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than
> I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus
> responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that
> is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself
> and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither
> came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear
> evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with
> God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in
> St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father
> which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into
> the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he
> would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he
> would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of
> another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
> therefore Jesus is not God.
>
> Conclusion
> The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
> about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
> not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
> basis have you come to believe otherwise?
>
> My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is
> false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented
> in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
>
> If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
> Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
>
>
> What is the word of God about Jesus:
>
> A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
> That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are
> doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him!
> When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an
> 19:34,35).
>
> And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have
> indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it
> and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down
> crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and
> it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the
> heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an
> 19:88-93).
>
> Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
> created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
> 3:59).
>
> People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
> not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
> the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
> spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
> 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
> on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the
> heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)
>
> B. Regarding Jesus being God:
> And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
> and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
> is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
> knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
> within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
> You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
> witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
> me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
> everything. (Quran 5:116,117)
>
> C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
> And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
> calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary,
> the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified
> him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
> variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no
> knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not
> slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is
> Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will
> assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day
> he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)
>
> http://www.islamtoday.net/english/


Hmm ... memory on:
5477 news:YLa3g.15813$X64.3459@news.get2net.dk
(and others)

Hello Sir! - Nice to hear Your voice ...

(sorry, but my english is very bad)

You said: "God is one, not three" - and that's correct (James 2,19.
1.Cor.8,5-6).

So why does we christian worship the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit ?

Well - if You look at God as óne body, this body can have an arm (the symbol
of Jesus, see old testament (the Jewish Bible) Isaiah 53,1)

And the Good News is this:

One day this arm decided to quit his "job" as an arm on-the-body, and
therefore he is no longer God Himself (John.1,14. Philippians 2,6-7).

Everything Jesus did on earth, he did it as a man, just like You and me, and
therefore he also showed us *how* to handle the situation by use'ing the
Word-of-God against the devil one and so on (Matt.4,1-11).

But somehow this arm does still have the copyright to forgive sins (Luke
5,24), just like an ambassador have right to do deals far away from his own
country ...

I the letter to the Hebrews it's written, that ...

This means that he (own: Jesus) had to become like his
brothers in every way, in order to be their faithful and
merciful High Priest in his service to God, so that the
people's sins would be forgiven.
And now he can help those who are tempted, because he
himself was tempted and suffered.

(Hebr. 2,17-18 - today's english version)

You see: We need someone to help us by pay'ing the bill for our sins. Jesus
did that on the cross with His *own* life (Hebr.9,24-26).

I'm sorry, but Muhammed just can't help us (in this case) ...

One day this arm (rosed from the death and) returned back on-the-body (Acts
7,56 Luke 22,69) and therefore (again) is a part-of-the-body, God Himself.

That's why we worship Him, Jesus Christ, because He is above all ...


But what about the Holy Spirit ? - Is He also God Himself ?

Once I asked the danish Chief Rabbi, Mr. Bent Lexner, about this. See ...

From: "Jesus-loves-you" <John15.13@Heaven>
Newsgroups: dk.livssyn.kristendom
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 CET 10:56 (DK sommertime 2006)
Subject: Er Guds Ånd én og samme person som Jahve ? - Spørgsmål til Bent
Lexner
2446 news:Dbfxc.9931$Vf.521972@news000.worldonline.dk
>
> Er *Guds Ånd* én og samme person som Jahve (JHVH) ?

And his answer was, that ...

2498 news:Im1yc.10562$Vf.587999@news000.worldonline.dk
>
> Kære Mogens Kall,
> Efter jødisk tankegang er såvel Guds ånd som Gud selv identisk.
>
> hilsen
> Bent Lexner

.... which means (something like), that the Spirit of God and God is
identical.

Otherwise the Jewish faith would no longer be monotheistical ...
(God is one, not two)

So therefore we christians do also worship the Spirit-of-God (the Holy
Spirit).

-

You are use'ing some words from the Bible:

> 1. God is All Knowing.....
Mark 13:32
Matt 24:36.

> 2. God is All Powerful.....
St. John 5:19.
St. John 5:30.

> 3. God does not have a God.....
St. John 20:17.
Matt 27:46.
(Luke 11:2-4)
Matt 26:36-39.

> 4. God is an invisible spirit.....
St. John 1:18.
St. John 5:37.
St. John 4:24.

> 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him
St. John 14:28,
Matt 19:17
St. John 8:42
Luke 22:42
St. John 5:30

In all 5 cases these words was said by Jesus, when He was NOT-on-the-body
(when He quit the nature as God, the Creator Himself, Phil.2,6).

Therefore He did not know everything.
Therefore He was not powerful.
Therefore He had a God (our Father).
Therefore He was not an invisible spirit.
And therefore - of course - the Father is greater than Him.

.... so that we can *follow* Him (NOT as gods, but just as human
beings) ...

All that we have to do is this (say fx.):

Jesus! - I need You. Come into my life (John.14,23).

And by this we are a Temple of God (1.Cor.3,16. Rom.5,5. Eph.1,13b-14a).

Have a nice day.


With kind regards,
Mogens Kall, The servant of Michael
--
SETI: Win (vind) 5000 Danish Kr. (around 800 US $), jump ...
4193 news:3gpee.1412$Fe7.30938@news000.worldonline.dk
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(use perhaps http://www.google.dk/grphp ). File-number: 5494