---

Dear Madam/Sir,

I have a horrific tale of a University-educated White European Canadian
and a blue eyed blonde Finn moving to Denmark only to meet widespread
xenophobia.

I characterize the races in the previous paragraph so as to focus the issue.

As a result we have bounced into Sweden to find a wonderful society.

Please find my account of events below.

Clearly policies which bring us on the way back to
the 30s need to be fought in utmost priority, and with unusual vigor.

What I also have found out is that Xenophobia is institutionalized since
Venstre took power, making Danish citizens who happen to fall in love
with non-EU people lesser citizens, having to live on a single salary as
unreasonable delays for work permit granting have become policy.

Is there a fund established or being established to compensate victims
of Danish xenophobia? I have in mind such things as apartment finding
fees, moving fees, job search fees, etc.


Sincere Regards,
Philippe Laporte


----------------

I am an excellent Software Engineer and a great worker, and I can
provide many references, both European and North-American, to that effect.

My experience in Denmark has been a long, painful story. It appears that
Aalborg is unfit for immigration.

Last summer, when I was looking for a new position, I got several offers
in several cities in several countries. I chose a mobile phone Software
firm in Aalborg because the work contents, the company, the people, the
salary, was the best combination, and Aalborg looked OK.

As a result of my Canadian upbringing, I was imbued with the notion that
Canada and Scandinavia are the most advanced societies on Earth, at
least so judged by the UN, and by the commonalities in values.
Therefore, when moving to Denmark with my Finnish girlfriend, I
blissfully assumed that integration would be seamless. This has not been
the case.

What I was unaware of, and which I had not even considered, was the
drastic reversal in Danish Politics in recent years. The facts are that
the government in power, with little relevant opposition, has enacted
extreme laws which restrict the social and human rights of immigrants,
as well, as believe it or not, Danish citizens. There was a feeling of
laxism with regards to immigration policy, and so in the quest for a
more reasonable system, an extreme at the opposite end has been chosen.
Believe it or not, there is now a policy to delay the granting of work
visas for Non-EU citizens as much as possible (an actual case from a
company employee has it running at 1 and half years now), and, be ready
for this, if a Danish citizen wants to marry a non-EU person, the
citizen must deposit 50 000 DKK into a secured bank account in case of
divorce and subsequent forced repatriation of the immigrant concubine.

To anyone having grown in a civilized, western society, this is plainly
unacceptable. Yet, several years on, the law persists. It is also common
perception that politicians here do not condemn racist talk or
race-targeted accusations. It is my opinion that racism exists
everywhere to varying degrees. But it is common attitude in Canada that
politicians must make the populace better by condemning any statements
targeting a minority. This is all so obvious to me I’m not sure what my
purpose is here.

That could be an isolated fact but it is anchored in reality even more
with the following telling of the racist/discriminatory experiences my
family and I have experienced. When moving to Aalborg I had assumed that
my Finnish girlfriend, who works in the Hotel and Restaurant Management
industry, would have no trouble finding work, given her excellent
Swedish and English. This has not been the case. Employers here insist
on prior knowledge of Danish, and they signify it in the most rude of
ways: “we’ll talk to you when you speak Danish” has been the common
reply. I will not argue why this is unacceptable; if this is not
self-evident to the reader, he is part of the problem, and I am not sure
that the problem can be solved by the inside.

It is unacceptable for a Nordic citizen to have to learn the local
language in order to be able to work..The fact is that locals do not
think they should make any effort to help the immigrant integrate. This
is obviously a chauvinistic attitude, of the kind “we got the great
country, you should feel lucky to be here, what have you at home to go
back to?” When it comes to a Nordic citizen or a Canadian, well, the
answer is, everything (and obviously more than Denmark has to offer…).
We are not, and will never accept to be treated as, second class
citizens. Denmark will have to realize that we are doing it a favour by
bringing our worldly skills and experience, and be grateful for it. What
do you people expect: that my girlfriend spend 6 months to a year
without work, learning Danish, thus decreasing the family income and
diminishing our quality of life? That is plainly unacceptable! She is
not content with living off the system, as many Danish natives seem to
be. Life is surely not about being as lazy as possible…

On another instance, my girlfriend and her 4 years old child, who is
white, blond, blue eyes, and called Kasper (a very popular Danish name),
was in a bookstore checking out a children’s book with his mother. The
store attendant came, and taking away the book from the child’s hands,
said “Go back to Finland!”. When later confronted by me over this, the
attendant denied all…but hey, even the kid recognized him, that “evil man”.

While in Danish class, around Easter time the teacher was telling us
about HimmelFart and such, when he suddenly approached an Israeli and
said, in his “own” humoristic way, “you’re not one of those tormentors
are you”. Any comment needed?

When Denmark says come here, we need Software Engineers, it is saying,
come here, it's good place, and you can live well. Maybe it should add:
unless you have a family.

On one additional instance, my girlfriend and Kasper where in the
children park (kildepark), and Kasper, feeling like playing with other
kids, approached one of them, speaking Finnish, the only language he
currently speaks. Well believe it, the other’s child’s parent took his
child away, as if Kasper were some alien, dangerous creature. This not
only happened once, but several times.

That is simply outrageous! That is UNCIVILIZED!

When visiting the local employment office, my girlfriend was told on two
occasions that it would be very hard for her to find work because she
didn’t speak Danish.

And one last drop, which simply does it, was a conversation I had with a
Master’s Degree holding co-worker of mine. Because it is generally the
case that xenophobia and discrimination is more common with lesser
educated people, since, as is widely accepted in tolerant countries,
xenophobia is caused by ignorance. When I mentioned the problems of my
girlfriend to this colleague, he promptly replied “well they should give
the jobs to the Danes first”. My work permit application was processed
in 3 weeks. That’s super-fast, and that’s because Software Engineer are
in demand. So let’s understand this: Denmark wants me but not my family?
Or it wants me to considerably lower my living standards because my
girlfriend can’t work? And my girlfriend has the right to work anyways.
That is the essence of the inter-Nordic agreement: Danes give jobs to
other Nordics, knowing that other Nordics countries give jobs to Danes.
So simple. But beyond the Danish mind.

By the way, my girlfriend has excellent training, experience, and
references, just like me.

When in Göteborg, Sweden (150 KM in straight line from Aalborg,
accessible by ferry in 3 hours), visiting my brother, I asked the taxi
driver: “are there a lot of Danes in Göteborg?” he then laughed. Then I
asked “What about Norwegians?”, and he said “yes, quite a few”. So I
asked “why no Danes”, and he answered “the Danes are very happy at home”.

Don’t Danes realize that the birth rate is too low amongst “pure” Danes,
and that, like the rest of the western world, Denmark needs immigrants
to survive in the long term?

So it appears tat I have been a victim of my naivety. But really,
nothing at all could let me imagine that Denmark is a fascist country.
It is the saddest episode in my life, and I hope to leave it behind
forever and quickly.

I am sorry to offend open-minded Danes, but this situation is plainly
unacceptable, and until resolved, Aalborg should be declared out of
bounds for immigration.

---

Philippe Laporte <philippe.laporte@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:

> Dear Madam/Sir,
>
> I have a horrific tale of a University-educated White European Canadian
> and a blue eyed blonde Finn moving to Denmark only to meet widespread
> xenophobia.
>
>
BULLSHIT!

--
Jesper
The saw is family!

---

Jesper <spambuster@users.toughguy.net> wrote:

> Philippe Laporte <philippe.laporte@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>
> > Dear Madam/Sir,
> >
> > I have a horrific tale of a University-educated White European Canadian
> > and a blue eyed blonde Finn moving to Denmark only to meet widespread
> > xenophobia.
> >
> >
> BULLSHIT!

Seconded.

--
regards, Peter Bjørn Perlsø
http://haxor.dk - http://liberterran.org - http://haxor.dk/fanaticism/ -
http://planetarybillofrights.org/ - http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

---

Philippe Laporte skrev:
> Dear Madam/Sir,
>
> I have a horrific tale of a University-educated White European Canadian
> and a blue eyed blonde Finn moving to Denmark only to meet widespread
> xenophobia.

The problem is absolutely not Finnish people, neither any other European
nor Western - or for that matter, eventually eastern or Asian - people:

The problem is that we've had to restrict immigration due to serious
problems with immigration from middle-eastern countries.

We've got a huge amount of immigrants with moslem background, many of
whom live from our wellfare system without contributing to our society
in ANY positive way: Rather they commit fraud and even hardcore crime,
when they aren't out and about trying to impose Islamic laws in this
country, hence the recent Cartoon-controversy.

And in order to defend ourselves and our country from having even more
of these people coming here causing trouble, we've had to impose laws,
which sadly hit a lot of people, since - and this is a VERY important
point! - we simple aren't allowed to discriminate between well-educated
professionals like yourself, wanting to make a peaceful living here and
contribute to our prosperity and those immigrants who obviously solely
want to unilaterally benefit economically from our society.

Even young Danes get hit by these laws, which is of course sad, but also
necessary to keep some seriously unwanted people out.

Even though it is obviously absurd to compare a young Dane who wants to
live in Denmark with a girlfriend or boyfriend from a western non-EU
country to an immigrant trying to get his/her cousin - and eventually
the rest of the local village in, for instance, Turkey - into the
country by marriage, it seems that some young Danes will have to pay the
price by waiting untill they're 25 to get married.

But when in comes to foreign professionals like youself and your wife,
there's recently been talks about making a "green card"-solution to this
very problem.

You might percieve my sentiment as "fascist" if you're truly a so-called
"bleeding heart"-liberal, but I can assure you that fascism is really
what we're trying to avoid here: I don't know how much you're able to
follow the debates in Danish media, but we've already got some rather
nasty side-effects of the moslem immigration to battle right now, as we
can't in any way accept high crime rates (practically all sorts of
violent crimes are comitted by immigrant kids against native Danes),
mistreatment of women and obvious religious fascism amongst moslem
immigrants. It would be scaringly naive to ignore these obvious
problems, and we really don't need to invite more trouble than we
already have...

--
Regards
Anders Peter Johnsen

---

"Anders Peter Johnsen" <anderspj@REMOVE_THISwebspeed.dk> skrev i en
meddelelse news:444d5d4d$0$47038$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk...
> Philippe Laporte skrev:
>> Dear Madam/Sir,
>>
>> I have a horrific tale of a University-educated White European Canadian
>> and a blue eyed blonde Finn moving to Denmark only to meet widespread
>> xenophobia.
>
> The problem is absolutely not Finnish people, neither any other European
> nor Western - or for that matter, eventually eastern or Asian - people:
>
> The problem is that we've had to restrict immigration due to serious
> problems with immigration from middle-eastern countries.
>
> We've got a huge amount of immigrants with moslem background, many of whom
> live from our wellfare system without contributing to our society in ANY
> positive way: Rather they commit fraud and even hardcore crime, when they
> aren't out and about trying to impose Islamic laws in this country, hence
> the recent Cartoon-controversy.
>
> And in order to defend ourselves and our country from having even more of
> these people coming here causing trouble, we've had to impose laws, which
> sadly hit a lot of people, since - and this is a VERY important point! -
> we simple aren't allowed to discriminate between well-educated
> professionals like yourself, wanting to make a peaceful living here and
> contribute to our prosperity and those immigrants who obviously solely
> want to unilaterally benefit economically from our society.
>
> Even young Danes get hit by these laws, which is of course sad, but also
> necessary to keep some seriously unwanted people out.
>
> Even though it is obviously absurd to compare a young Dane who wants to
> live in Denmark with a girlfriend or boyfriend from a western non-EU
> country to an immigrant trying to get his/her cousin - and eventually the
> rest of the local village in, for instance, Turkey - into the country by
> marriage, it seems that some young Danes will have to pay the price by
> waiting untill they're 25 to get married.
>
> But when in comes to foreign professionals like youself and your wife,
> there's recently been talks about making a "green card"-solution to this
> very problem.
>
> You might percieve my sentiment as "fascist" if you're truly a so-called
> "bleeding heart"-liberal, but I can assure you that fascism is really what
> we're trying to avoid here: I don't know how much you're able to follow
> the debates in Danish media, but we've already got some rather nasty
> side-effects of the moslem immigration to battle right now, as we can't in
> any way accept high crime rates (practically all sorts of violent crimes
> are comitted by immigrant kids against native Danes), mistreatment of
> women and obvious religious fascism amongst moslem immigrants. It would be
> scaringly naive to ignore these obvious problems, and we really don't need
> to invite more trouble than we already have...
>
> --
> Regards
> Anders Peter Johnsen

Very well spoken, could not have said it better my self.

Regards Svend

---

"Philippe Laporte" <philippe.laporte@mail.mcgill.ca> skrev i en meddelelse
news:S5b3g.54250$d5.208724@newsb.telia.net...
> Dear Madam/Sir,
>
> I have a horrific tale of a University-educated White European Canadian
> and a blue eyed blonde Finn moving to Denmark only to meet widespread
> xenophobia.

<snip>

I am a foreigner living in Denmark. I am white, male, and come from an
English speaking country (New Zealand). I have been in Denmark for 11 years
(in the Copenhagen area) and am very happy here (married to a Dane, and with
a couple of kids). I have not sought Danish citizenship, but have a
permanent residence visa.

I speak acceptable Danish - although far from perfect. When I first arrived
I spoke no Danish, but was offered free courses (paid for by the Danish
state). My first couple of jobs (computer programming) I conducted entirely
in English - there were never any complaints about this. Now I use Danish -
still no complaints But sometimes mirth!

I have never experienced racist or nationalistic problems due to being a
foreigner. Almost the opposite. When I was trying to learn Danish the
biggest problem was that people would continue to speak English to me! So
sometimes it took a bit of effort on my part to insist on Danish even though
English would surely have been easier for both parts.

I did find the rules regarding residency confusing, and the staff at the
udlændingestryrelsen unfriendly and unhelpful, and I have heard that things
are even tougher now. But the average "Dane on the street" I have always
found to be helpful and decent.

I certainly can't recognise the situation(s) you described. Maybe I have
just been lucky?

Peter

---

I am sorry to read your story and what you have experienced, but I am
even sorrier that your situation is far from being unique, but rather
what a lot of people including native Danes have been a victim of due
to the changes in the immigration law in the recent years.

I worked abroad for a Danish company for some years. I enjoyed the
foreign country, got married, we had a child and the years went by.
After five years, I started thinking that my family should get to know
the place that I originate from (I have reconsidered this later
though). My parents had become grandparents and they wished to be a
little closer to the family. The job market also looked quite good in
Denmark so I sent some resumes to some of the larger companies that I
expected could use people with international experience. I found a
match and we had to arrange moving quickly.

Knowing from the Danish newspapers immigration had gotten tough over
the years, I didn't think I would have problem as I had read on the
website for Human Rights that married couples always have the right to
live in the country where one partner is a citizen without economically
consequences.

We came to Denmark in 2004. I started working - and I applied for my
wife's permanent residency. After about a month I received a letter
stating that I qualified for Family Reunification. I was happy to see
that I was allowed to have my family here. Well based on my (Human)
rights I was not overly thrilled by that letter. But not everyone is
that "lucky". Denmark has made a law where you must be 24 before
you can qualify for Family Reunification despite you can marry at the
age of 18!!!! I'm glad that it didn't matter to me. The government
was ready to processes my application. So what happened next? Nothing,
and I mean NOTHING. Despite the confirming letter, it would take 12
months to process my application, because of the high load. Well I can
understand that it takes time to investigate all this I was asked to
declare on that 35-pages application. What I don't understand is why
my wife's life basically is parked while the application is pending.
She's not allowed to work, she is not allowed to travel (they hold
the passport until the case is finished), she's not allowed to see a
doctor, nor, is she allowed to attend school to learn some Danish. For
the next year she will be completely locked out from the society.
First after the application is granted a (long) integrations process
can start.

It's great that the government takes care of integration, but why is
it not carried out while the application is pending??? You would think
that the chances for a Family Reunification being denied are pretty
slim when it's already been looked over and approved for being filed.
But no - just sit back and wait, wait and wait. This is a waist of
people's life and tax money. Isn't that stupid? People who have
nothing to do tend to get involved with other people in the same
situation. Those people get bored and tend to get involved with things
that are bad for the society. Yes I'm talking about crime. Crime has
been rising with the rising immigration. The government has an
excellent program for integration, but it comes too late. A year in the
"wrong" community can be fatal for some people - and for society.
I'm sure that some of the crime Denmark has seen could have been
avoided with a little more efficiency from the government's side.

After a year, permit residency could be issued if I deposited 54000 DKR
as a security for any social assistance my wife might need during the
next seven years. Knowing that my Human Rights were violated I did not
want the case to get delayed further and paid the money. Finally she
would be able to work, get a normal life and -pay tax money. - Well,
not so. While waiting for the permit she found out that her
international education was useless in Denmark. Yes I did say
international. But in Denmark everything is Danish so international
doesn't always do. She would basically have to start over with her
education, to be able to work with what she had been doing for years.
Fortunately her education could qualify for a continued education, she
just had to pass the Danish test for university level. Thanks to her
hard work and self-integrating amongst Danes, she passed the language
test after a short period of time.

Our stay in Denmark is approaching two years. Since we came, I don't
think I have opened a newspaper or seen the news on TV without being
confronted with stories about all the problems immigration causes for
Denmark. And unfortunate, every time the words immigration and
immigrants are pronounced, it is linked to a society with "them and
us". The Danes just don't seem to understand that this attitude
won't get the integration going. The government puts a lot of money
into integration but they get little return for their money. Canada has
lots of immigrants who are contributing to the economy. Thanks to the
government and the people in Denmark we have a net loss on that account
because of a failed integration. Only higher taxes can make up for
this. I know the system is filled up with bureaucracy, but the main
issue is that most of the population is lacking respect and has no
tolerance for anyone not Danish. Not even our closest
neighbor-countries do we treat and talk about with respect. You have
seen that yourself. I have to say that the government controls the
people pretty hard in Denmark. If they (the government) say it, it's
right. And unfortunately the government hasn't really moved away from
the "them and us" attitude either. Part of the government has a
racist attitude as well. And lots of people follow the example. It is
really scary.

I have a multi cultural family. We understand the global civilization.
We understand that people from different places meet, get married and
live together, and need to be integrated into other cultures. In most
western countries, this goes really well. In Denmark it needs
improvement. Neither Danes, the immigrants, nor the country of Denmark
can stand out of the global civilization. It is all about WE, not THEM
and US. But as long as so many Danes and the government won't open
their minds for the world, the integration is not going anywhere.

I have stated before in this newsgroup how disappointed my family and I
have been with the Danes view of people from the planet Earth. I
understand that we have problems with immigrants from the Middle East
and the rising crime it has caused. In contrast I have addressed some
of the issues in the way Denmark and its people handle integration. But
I have pretty much only received personal criticism for my post, not
only because I have a family not being pure Danish but more because I
have criticized the Danish society's view of foreigners. Furthermore
I stated that if things are not changing for the better, our stay will
be on borrowed time. And yes I do know that the Danes pay for my
wife's education, but the price for being a Dane married to a foreign
citizen is much higher - and for those that haven't gotten it yet,
I'm not taking about money. We stayed in my wife's country for five
years. Sure we could go back right away, but then we would waste the
last two years of our life. We now stay in Denmark for five years until
my wife finishes her education. Then we evaluate which country is most
suitable for raising a multi cultural family.

I truly believe that the initiative to get the integration going has to
come from the government and the people. And we are seeing some people
taking some initiative. Danes can now sign-up for getting to know and
meeting an immigrant, and a TV program has a debate with people having
different religions. Some companies do a lot to hire and integrate
immigrants. I think the situations are changing. It's going slowly
and painfully for some, but it is happening. Thanks to the people in
Denmark that's taking these steps. I hope the news and the government
back it up, otherwise we are not going to make it.

---

thelandoftax@yahoo.com wrote in news:1145990384.586094.314470
@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:

> I am sorry to read your story and what you have experienced, but I am

Suk.

*PLONK*

---

"Philippe Laporte" <philippe.laporte@mail.mcgill.ca> skrev i en meddelelse
news:S5b3g.54250$d5.208724@newsb.telia.net...
> Dear Madam/Sir,

Indeed!

It has come to pass that the Danes - especially the diminishing lot that
happens to be taxpayers - are fed up being told by foreigners how to bend
over so they can screw them better!

> Clearly policies which bring us on the way back to
> the 30s need to be fought in utmost priority, and with unusual vigor.

There is no "us".

> Is there a fund established or being established to compensate victims
> of Danish xenophobia? I have in mind such things as apartment finding
> fees, moving fees, job search fees, etc.

Convert to Islam - then surely there will be an opening provided for you.

>
>
> Sincere Regards,
> Philippe Laporte
>
>
> ----------------
>
> I am an excellent Software Engineer and a great worker, and I can
> provide many references, both European and North-American, to that effect.
>
> My experience in Denmark has been a long, painful story. It appears that
> Aalborg is unfit for immigration.
>
> Last summer, when I was looking for a new position, I got several offers
> in several cities in several countries. I chose a mobile phone Software
> firm in Aalborg because the work contents, the company, the people, the
> salary, was the best combination, and Aalborg looked OK.

That was before tax, probably.

> As a result of my Canadian upbringing,

... You think you are Entitled to preferential treatment. Which we could
indeed give you had we adopted the Canadian immigration policy instead of
the "(un)lucky dip" policy that we get for sucking up to the UN.

> ways: “we’ll talk to you when you speak Danish” has been the common
> reply. I will not argue why this is unacceptable; if this is not
> self-evident to the reader, he is part of the problem, and I am not sure
> that the problem can be solved by the inside.

"The Problem" being ... What?? Fit in or Fuck Off!§ Same everywhere you go.

> It is unacceptable for a Nordic citizen to have to learn the local
> language in order to be able to work..The fact is that locals do not
> think they should make any effort to help the immigrant integrate.

We already pay the higest tax on the planet - partly because of
"integration". Why should we waste our spare time *as well* on "integrating"
people who cannot even be bothered to learn the langauge?

> On another instance, my girlfriend and her 4 years old child, who is
> white, blond, blue eyes, and called Kasper (a very popular Danish name),
> was in a bookstore checking out a children’s book with his mother. The
> store attendant came, and taking away the book from the child’s hands,
> said “Go back to Finland!”. When later confronted by me over this, the
> attendant denied all…but hey, even the kid recognized him, that “evil man”.

*I* think you are a Troll or a Narcissist - perhaps both

> When Denmark says come here, we need Software Engineers, it is saying,
> come here, it's good place, and you can live well.

No, it is the politicians saying: "we need more taxes so that we can live
well and assume more power",

and the employers that say:

"we need more people on cheap short-term visas to strike fear in our greedy
employees hearts".


> Don’t Danes realize that the birth rate is too low amongst “pure” Danes,
> and that, like the rest of the western world, Denmark needs immigrants
> to survive in the long term?

Mass immigration will destroy the western world faster than falling
birthrates!

What people are beginning to realise is that our standard of living, our
land, our culture and our rights are being secretly traded away by "our"
governments for some goodwill in the "international community"; money and
yet more advantages to the select few.

Do you *really* think that this is a sustainable and desirable state of
affairs?

Would it not be better to stop that process while there is still some future
ahead that does not include a new fascist movement assuming power on the
anger of the populations that the governments failed and ethnically
cleansing Europe? People who think that democracies are not violent are
stupid!

> So it appears tat I have been a victim of my naivety. But really,
> nothing at all could let me imagine that Denmark is a fascist country.

Like any of the rather common lot that thinks that everyone owes them
something, you are not capable of spotting a fascist even when it bites you
on the arse!

> I am sorry to offend open-minded Danes, but this situation is plainly
> unacceptable, and until resolved, Aalborg should be declared out of
> bounds for immigration.

Imagine ...
Just Bring It, Napoleon!

---

I do see some problems too the way Philippe describes himself. It's
clearly that the company Philippe works for has failed to inform him
about one of the most important laws in Denmark - the law of Jante (In
Danish, Janteloven). Amongst the 1000s of laws we have in Denmark, the
law of Jante is probably one the most enforced by the people.
Immigrants and visitors could greatly benefit from reading the law of
Jante BEFORE entering the country. Also Danes that remain outside
Scandinavia more than a month should do themselves a favor and review
the law of Jante as it does not take long time to forget it if not
confronted with it daily. In fact it is almost impossible to imagine it
exist after a few months away from Scandinavia. Foreigners
communicating with Danes will have it a lot easier if they have this
law in mind anytime a Dane is near. Here is a link to a page where the
law of Jante is translated to English.
http://www.skovgaard.org/europe/denmark.htm#jantelov

This site has other information that describes Denmark. Some of this
seems to be a little outdated though. Personally I do not agree to all
that is written there, but you get a good feeling of how society works
in Denmark.

---

> communicating with Danes will have it a lot easier if they have this
> law in mind anytime a Dane is near. Here is a link to a page where the
> law of Jante is translated to English.
> http://www.skovgaard.org/europe/denmark.htm#jantelov

A website with a number of made up stories and made up facts.


Andy

---

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:42:36 +0200, "Andy" <aaa_2500X@Xhotmail.com>
wrote:

>> communicating with Danes will have it a lot easier if they have this
>> law in mind anytime a Dane is near. Here is a link to a page where the
>> law of Jante is translated to English.
>> http://www.skovgaard.org/europe/denmark.htm#jantelov
>
>A website with a number of made up stories and made up facts.

This made me laugh out loud: "One of the SOCIALIST parties is named
the Conservative People Party in order to fool the electors"...

The man has a mental problem....

---

TheLandOfTax skrev:

> I do see some problems too the way Philippe describes himself. It's
> clearly that the company Philippe works for has failed to inform him
> about one of the most important laws in Denmark - the law of Jante (In
> Danish, Janteloven). Amongst the 1000s of laws we have in Denmark, the
> law of Jante is probably one the most enforced by the people.
> Immigrants and visitors could greatly benefit from reading the law of
> Jante BEFORE entering the country. Also Danes that remain outside
> Scandinavia more than a month should do themselves a favor and review
> the law of Jante as it does not take long time to forget it if not
> confronted with it daily. In fact it is almost impossible to imagine it
> exist after a few months away from Scandinavia. Foreigners
> communicating with Danes will have it a lot easier if they have this
> law in mind anytime a Dane is near. Here is a link to a page where the
> law of Jante is translated to English.
> http://www.skovgaard.org/europe/denmark.htm#jantelov
>
> This site has other information that describes Denmark. Some of this
> seems to be a little outdated though. Personally I do not agree to all
> that is written there, but you get a good feeling of how society works
> in Denmark.

As Shane McGowan (former Pogues lead vocal) sang: "It´s the
same..........whereever you go". And that provocateur has been all
over.
In my international work I meet Jante everyday, but I will credit you
that if your foreign excursions only include mutter Pötch and
Mallorca, then how could you possibly know differently.
Further, I have a strong impression that Phillipe´s story is more or
less made up or as a minimum put together.

B/R
Martin

---

"Philippe Laporte" <philippe.laporte@mail.mcgill.ca> skrev i en meddelelse
news:S5b3g.54250$d5.208724@newsb.telia.net...
> Dear Madam/Sir,
>

Your input just saved my spirit this morning. Every day when I wake, I am
worried about my country. As long as I have lived I did not have problems
with whom I am doing business and socialize with. People my parents have
known and had a good reputation were among the first people I did business
with. Peoples reputation is in Denmark something that pass along in the
family in every aspect of life. Even education, jobs and how people are
treated in courts are decided by who their family was and what the social
status of the family is.

In the small village I did grow up in we all know each other and when new
people did settle in town, we did leave them at themselves. Perhaps if they
did behave in a matter that we did find acceptable their children would be
regarded as a part of our community.

In the resent years a lot of people whom background was unknown to most of
us did settle in our town. It made us origin people worry about what our
community would develop into.

Then your input is nice. If we do succeed in isolating our selves we could
maintain our high standard of morale and values.

But it calls for a stop for immigration. Only if we get the time we need to
absorb the amount of people already here into our society by just waiting
for their children to grow up while observing if they behave, our country
would still be a welfare society.

I am therefore glad that you find Denmark unfit for immigration. If the
message do get around, people would no longer seek to our country and we
would get the time our country needs.

--

Regards
Carsten Overgaard
http://www.carstenovergaard.dk/undskyld.htm
http://www.center-validering.dk/aboutdenmark.htm
"Hvis du ikke kan lide indlægget, så er det webmasterens skyld"

---

"Philippe Laporte" <philippe.laporte@mail.mcgill.ca> skrev i en meddelelse
news:S5b3g.54250$d5.208724@newsb.telia.net...
> Dear Madam/Sir,

As I read your text I do become aware of a problem of information regarding
people whom want to come here and work because of our tax-rules which allow
people like you to enjoy the benefits of living in a almost welfare society
without paying for it.

If I may steel a minute to tell you about my origins my father when he did
service in our army did meet my mother in Helsinki - Finland where she was
born.

They did settle down in Denmark. Even back then our custom-services was
thinking that the whole marriage was just done in order to make my mother
leave Finland where she did belong to the small Swedish speaking part of
their population which were very harsh treated. They did in other words not
do anything wrong. It was their job to protect the Danish population against
foreigners which wanted to live of our system.

Well. She passed the test and took up the Danish language very fast. Today
after some 41 years in Denmark, people very seldom refer to her language. It
only if they are angry she are called bad names. But she is working in job
with direct contact to the customers and her jobposition does give them a
limited right to shout and hit at her.

I do not speak Finnish and It is so because my parents wanted me and my
brother to get well-integrated into the Danish society. So they consulted
the experts down where I lived back then. The experts did explain that a
secondary language would give any child a problem later in life because
there could be a risk of the child would end up with a poor ability to speak
the Danish language.

Knowing that both my mother and me did have to prove that we should earn the
right of acceptance in our society we have always worked very hard without
complaints. If you look around in Denmark You would see a lot of
well-educated people working in shops or as a taxi-driver. They are on their
way to earn the accept of the society, so they can use their education as
doctor or engineer. But they have to earn our respect first. I did so and I
am doing fine as CIO at my present job.

As that is perhaps they very problem regarding your wife. She has to work in
a job well below her education so she can show that she is worthy of the
respect from the Danish population. Perhaps she should take up dish-washing
if she wants to continue in her line of work.

But we often forget to inform the rest of the world about our values and
that is a problem.

You could claim that our values are a kind of racism but even if a man from
Copenhagen would take his family and settle in some remote village in
Jutland he would face the same problems. Just now a lot of employees in
government office have been told to move to a very remote place in Jutland.
None wants to go and it is because they know that they would lose their
social status and identity if they went there.

Their employer does of course know that and the people which are told to be
"expedited" are the old and warn-down employees. It is in Denmark cheaper to
get people quit their job a their own will than kicking them out. You could
say that the employers knowledge of our culture do favour him.

--

Regards
Carsten Overgaard
http://www.center-validering.dk/aboutdenmark.htm

---

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:59:03 +0200, "Carsten Overgaard"
<info@carstenovergaard.dk> wrote:

>I do not speak Finnish and It is so because my parents wanted me and my
>brother to get well-integrated into the Danish society. So they consulted
>the experts down where I lived back then. The experts did explain that a
>secondary language would give any child a problem later in life because
>there could be a risk of the child would end up with a poor ability to speak
>the Danish language.

Jøsses!

Der kan man se hvor gennemført stupide folk kan være - selv om de
kaldes "eksperter". Magen til nonsens skal man da trods alt lede længe
efter.

---

Carsten Overgaard wrote:

> As I read your text I do become aware of a problem of information regarding
> people whom want to come here and work because of our tax-rules which allow
> people like you to enjoy the benefits of living in a almost welfare society
> without paying for it.
>

Since both he and his girlfriend are working, how much welfare do you
think they are collecting?


> If you look around in Denmark You would see a lot of
> well-educated people working in shops or as a taxi-driver. They are on their
> way to earn the accept of the society, so they can use their education as
> doctor or engineer. But they have to earn our respect first. I did so and I
> am doing fine as CIO at my present job.

> As that is perhaps they very problem regarding your wife. She has to work in
> a job well below her education so she can show that she is worthy of the
> respect from the Danish population. Perhaps she should take up dish-washing
> if she wants to continue in her line of work.

I know a doctor who recently graduated and has been invited to DK to
work. Do you think he will be accepted better if he drives a taxi for a
few years before he starts at a hospital? Is it better for the society
as well? I'll tell him your answer.

> You could claim that our values are a kind of racism but even if a man from
> Copenhagen would take his family and settle in some remote village in
> Jutland he would face the same problems. Just now a lot of employees in
> government office have been told to move to a very remote place in Jutland.
> None wants to go and it is because they know that they would lose their
> social status and identity if they went there.

I know the story about the government workers that was asked to move to
the other end of the country if they wanted to keep their jobs. It's
true that they do not want to go, but the reason you give - I hope
this is very incorrect. I'd like to hear other peoples meaning about
this.

---

"TheLandOfTax" <thelandoftax@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1146169028.207109.251860@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Carsten Overgaard wrote:
>
> > As I read your text I do become aware of a problem of information
regarding
> > people whom want to come here and work because of our tax-rules which
allow
> > people like you to enjoy the benefits of living in a almost welfare
society
> > without paying for it.
>
> Since both he and his girlfriend are working, how much welfare do you
> think they are collecting?

If You stay in Denmark less than 3 year, You don't have to pay very much in
tax. If you get sick while staying here, you would enjoy the benefit of what
remains of our former welfare society without paying the price for it. Most
of our population do not care what you could benefit with or why you did
choose to our country when we could have been left in peace, but we do care
about people which enjoy without paying.

> > If you look around in Denmark You would see a lot of
> > well-educated people working in shops or as a taxi-driver. They are on
their
> > way to earn the accept of the society, so they can use their education
as
> > doctor or engineer. But they have to earn our respect first. I did so
and I
> > am doing fine as CIO at my present job.
>
> > As that is perhaps they very problem regarding your wife. She has to
work in
> > a job well below her education so she can show that she is worthy of the
> > respect from the Danish population. Perhaps she should take up
dish-washing
> > if she wants to continue in her line of work.
>
> I know a doctor who recently graduated and has been invited to DK to
> work. Do you think he will be accepted better if he drives a taxi for a
> few years before he starts at a hospital? Is it better for the society
> as well? I'll tell him your answer.

It is a very common practice but always you could find a few person who does
not need to earn our respect. Al lot of problem comes from the foreign
education systems. We all do have access to the Internet and we have all
heard about school where you pay 500 $ and earn a doctor-degree. Almost in
every cases we do not believe that papers from foreign school are as good as
papers from Danish school. As a CIO in a 300 mill DKK business I don't
believe in foreign school paper as most firms in my business. People should
get a degree in a Danish school starting over from our public elementary
schools. A lot of people coming to Denmark do discover that and while they
see to get their papers validated or taking a Danish education, they earn
their living in low paid jobs earning our respect.

Mistrust of foreign school papers are widespread in Denmark.
http://www.computerworld.dk/art/21905 (In Danish. Last chapter.) It is
common knowledge in Denmark that the majority of engineers in the far east
have just bought their title without education.

> > You could claim that our values are a kind of racism but even if a man
from
> > Copenhagen would take his family and settle in some remote village in
> > Jutland he would face the same problems. Just now a lot of employees in
> > government office have been told to move to a very remote place in
Jutland.
> > None wants to go and it is because they know that they would lose their
> > social status and identity if they went there.
>
> I know the story about the government workers that was asked to move to
> the other end of the country if they wanted to keep their jobs. It's
> true that they do not want to go, but the reason you give - I hope
> this is very incorrect. I'd like to hear other peoples meaning about
> this.

In 2001 we did have an election in Denmark. On "Hornsherred" as part of
Zealand a local party would not support a candidate from another party
because he had only lived in town for 10 years and did come from another
city 50 km away. He was not local.

I would find some examples of people comming from Copenhagen who did settle
in the far west of Jutland. It should be easy. Presently in the west of
Jutland they tear down a some empty houses because they wont have people
from Aarhus moving their (Large city on the east coast of Jutland.). A
single house or 2 have been burnt down while newcommers had been living
there. Why should the people from the tax-department then settle in?

--

Regards
Carsten Overgaard
http://www.carstenovergaard.dk/undskyld.htm
http://www.center-validering.dk/aboutdenmark.htm
"Hvis du ikke kan lide indlægget, så er det webmasterens skyld"

---

In Denmark it is first and foremost the Danes themselves there deside
what rules everyone who comes here either to stay for a short time or
live permanently.

Unfortunately until the year 2001 then Vesntre and the Conservative
formed a government there was not sufficient rules for persons who
wished to stay in Denmark permanentmy

The result is that we today have around 200000 people of primarely
musllim origin that we have very difficult to integrate in our society.

In the US yuo have exactly the same problem with all yuor illegal
immigrants of hispanic origin. There is noone in Europe who says that
yuo are uncivilized then yuo in the US consider to make a law(s) which
are directed at these people om order to evict them permanently from
the US.

Regards

Torben Eastrup

e-mail: eastrup_news@hotmail.com

---

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:06:58 GMT, Philippe Laporte
<philippe.laporte@mail.mcgill.ca> wrote:

>That could be an isolated fact but it is anchored in reality even more
>with the following telling of the racist/discriminatory experiences my
>family and I have experienced. When moving to Aalborg I had assumed that
>my Finnish girlfriend, who works in the Hotel and Restaurant Management
>industry, would have no trouble finding work, given her excellent
>Swedish and English. This has not been the case. Employers here insist
>on prior knowledge of Danish, and they signify it in the most rude of
>ways: “we’ll talk to you when you speak Danish” has been the common
>reply. I will not argue why this is unacceptable; if this is not
>self-evident to the reader, he is part of the problem, and I am not sure
>that the problem can be solved by the inside.

He, he Canada LOL. I have been to Canada, both Anglo-Canada and
Quebec . Would any employer hire somebody not able to speak
English in a position where he/her would have to deal with English
speaking customers? I think that it is unthinkable.

>It is unacceptable for a Nordic citizen to have to learn the local
>language in order to be able to work..The fact is that locals do not
>think they should make any effort to help the immigrant integrate.

How would you do in Quebec without being able to speak the local
language, French? I was there as a tourist, and nobody wanted to
speak English with me. I do not know how I would have got along
without my broken high-school French. Even if they knew English well
they refused to serve a customer in that language. I have even met
French-Canadians outside Canada refusing to speak other languages than
French - even to me, a Non-Anglo-saxon. Some years ago I was on
holidays in Cuba and was on a tour where some Canadian tourists
participated. I asked the guy sitting next to me a question in English
and he just answered: Francais and didn't say a word on the whole
tour. You would never find people in Denmark that fanatic about
language.

> This
>is obviously a chauvinistic attitude, of the kind “we got the great
>country, you should feel lucky to be here, what have you at home to go
>back to?
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

---

The third report on Denmark from the The European Commission against
Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) states a lot of these things that are
written here. The government has denied everything in the report -
without comment. They know the law. They know the penalty for breaking
it. It's all written on the EU courts website for human rights. But
they just ignore it and play a dangerous game with the Danes future. I
have been involved in the immigration system and my human rights have
been violated. Especially regarding paragraph 49 and 50 which says:

Begin
49. ECRI deeply regrets that since its second report, new amendments,
which have, inter alia, further restricted the right to family
reunification, have been inserted into the Aliens' Act. Other than
the requirements that only those over 24 years may apply for spousal
reunification, on condition that they possess a reasonably-sized
dwelling, Article 9 of the Aliens' Act20 now provides that anyone
wishing to bring a spouse who is not a citizen of an EU Member State or
of the European Economic Area to Denmark must also meet the following
conditions: 1) if the person applying for spousal reunification has not
been a Danish national for 28 years, his/her spouse's aggregate ties
must be stronger with Denmark than the applicant's ties with his/her
spouse's country; 2) the applicant must not have been on social
welfare for one year prior to the date of the application, and 3)
he/she must provide a bank deposit of 54,000 Danish Crowns
(approximately 7,000 euros), which will be frozen if the applicant
loses his/her job in the first 7 years of the spousal reunification.
Moreover, his/her spouse's residence permit may be revoked as a
result of the job loss. The Act also provides that refugees may only
bring a spouse to Denmark if they had been married or cohabited before
the person was granted asylum. On this matter, the Danish Government
has stated that a very important factor when deciding on applications
for spousal reunification for refugees is whether or not the refugee is
able to take up residence in his/her country of origin or in another
country. ECRI is deeply concerned by the fact that the 28 years'
aggregate ties with Denmark rule amounts to indirect discrimination
between those who were born Danish and people who acquired Danish
citizenship at a later stage. The stated purpose of the 24 year old
rule, which is to avoid forced marriages, in fact concerns only a very
small number of people. According to research recently carried out
among members of the Turkish, Lebanese, Pakistani, Somali and former
Yugoslavian communities, 80% of the respondents indicated that they
chose their spouse themselves, 16 % stated that they did it together
with their parents and only 4% indicated that their parents chose their
spouse for them. Furthermore, ECRI is seriously worried by the fact
that the criteria that the person applying for spousal reunification
must not have been on social welfare for one year prior to his/her
application and that he/she must provide a bank deposit of 7,000 euros
in effect amounts to indirect discrimination against minority groups
who, as discussed below21, tend to be at the bottom of the
socio-economic ladder.

50. ECRI also notes with concern that these spousal reunification rules
have compelled many mixed couples to live in Sweden or Germany where
they are entitled to family reunification in accordance with EU rules.
NGOs have also highlighted the difficulties faced by people applying
for family or spousal reunification in reaching the Immigration
Services and in receiving information on the status of their case. On
this question, the Danish Government has stated that the Immigration
Service is continuously doing its utmost to improve the service of its
customers. Finally, NGOs have also indicated that one of the
consequences of these various restrictions is that spousal and family
reunifications have dropped since ECRI's second report.
End

The Danish government is quick to blame many countries for violating
human rights. Perhaps the government should clean up in their own
little country before guiding other countries in how to resolve human
rights.