---

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139161791.135848.189640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm
>
Freedom of speech and free press is smart.
As a matter of fact, it's so smart that I will defend it with my life.
Do you have a problem with that?

J.

---

We are not striving for smartness. We are striving for democracy and
not being brought down by the muslims. We thought you were with us?

---

So, have you bought a ticket to, err Beirut yet?

In my mind this appears to have very little to do with freedom of
speech, instead it is an obvious provocation on millions of muslims in
the world, similar in nature to what the German Nazi-movement was
publishing about Jews in the runup to the Kristal-nacht. We have in
fact accepted - quite universally - that it is illegal to publish or
even wear Nazi insignia, to dispute the existence of the Holocaust and
to practise anti-semitism. And for very good reasons, I would say!

---

why bring in the nazi time ?

we don't like war in DK ... we love peace and thats what we are fighting
for.

--
Johnny B [2000 Frb.]
"all my life i wanted a computer, now all i want is my life back"
¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤~¤
fjern KAGEN_I_DÅSEN i mailadr. for direkte mail

---

On 5 Feb 2006 10:04:15 -0800, frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com wrote:

>In my mind this appears to have very little to do with freedom of
>speech,

Danish newspapers publish funny cartoons of everything including our queen.
Nothing is sacred as long as it isnt based on hatred.

Keep in mind that no one at Jyllandsposten wrote that they hated muslims or anything like that.
The cartoons were published as a part of a discussion of freedom of speech.

The newspaper cant be held responsible for the fact that muslims has some funny rules.

Otherwise I want to hold the muslim dictatorships in the arab world responsible for some funny rules
too. Like discrimination of women, gays, no right to vote etc.

Regards
Sune

---

Sune wrote:
> Keep in mind that no one at Jyllandsposten wrote that they hated
> muslims or anything like that.

Jyllandsposten har ikke bestilt adet end at sprede had til muslimer i
årevis.

--
Per V.

---

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 19:29:27 +0100, "Per Vadmand" <perve@post.tele.dk> wrote:

>Jyllandsposten har ikke bestilt adet end at sprede had til muslimer i
>årevis.

Er det noget der er blevet bragt for en domstol?
Hvis ikke, så er det sikkert ikke så grelt og de har blot brugt deres ytringsfrihed.

Mvh
Sune

---

> Jyllandsposten har ikke bestilt adet end at sprede had til muslimer i
> årevis.
>
Giv os lige 50 artikler som bekræfter den fordom.

Carl

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139162655.122095.134910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So, have you bought a ticket to, err Beirut yet?
>
> In my mind this appears to have very little to do with freedom of
> speech, instead it is an obvious provocation on millions of muslims in
> the world, similar in nature to what the German Nazi-movement was
> publishing about Jews in the runup to the Kristal-nacht. We have in
> fact accepted - quite universally - that it is illegal to publish or
> even wear Nazi insignia, to dispute the existence of the Holocaust and
> to practise anti-semitism. And for very good reasons, I would say!

Actually it is legal to be a nazi in DK. Oh yeah Godwins law. You lost the
argument.

---

"Sirannon" <rune_nospammmingaagaard@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:43e647d3$0$1793$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
>
> Actually it is legal to be a nazi in DK. Oh yeah Godwins law. You lost the
> argument.

Sikke da noget sludder -man kan ikke tabe et argument - og så vil jeg da
opfordre til at man skriver dansk i en dansk nyhedsgruppe -
--
Wilstrup

---

"Wilstrup" <nix@invalid.com> writes:

> "Sirannon" <rune_nospammmingaagaard@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:43e647d3$0$1793$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
> >
> > Actually it is legal to be a nazi in DK. Oh yeah Godwins law. You lost the
> > argument.
>

> Sikke da noget sludder -man kan ikke tabe et argument - og så vil
> jeg da opfordre til at man skriver dansk i en dansk nyhedsgruppe -

Ja, det kan man godt forstå, når man ser hvor langt dine
engelskkundskaber strækker sig.

På engelsk er argument ca. det samme som diskussion på dansk.

//Wegge

---

Wilstrup wrote:
> "Sirannon" <rune_nospammmingaagaard@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:43e647d3$0$1793$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
>>
>> Actually it is legal to be a nazi in DK. Oh yeah Godwins law. You
>> lost the argument.
>
> Sikke da noget sludder -man kan ikke tabe et argument

Det lykkes ellers for dig sådan ca. hver eneste gang, du fremkommer med et.
Også denne gang.

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139162655.122095.134910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So, have you bought a ticket to, err Beirut yet?
>
> In my mind this appears to have very little to do with freedom of
> speech, instead it is an obvious provocation on millions of muslims in
> the world, similar in nature to what the German Nazi-movement was
> publishing about Jews in the runup to the Kristal-nacht. We have in
> fact accepted - quite universally - that it is illegal to publish or
> even wear Nazi insignia, to dispute the existence of the Holocaust and
> to practise anti-semitism. And for very good reasons, I would say!

It not illegal in Denmark to wear those signs or publish books about that
subject. Every year some silly hill-billies from a small town called Greve
march on the late Mr. Hess birthday. All we other Danes finds it funny
because Mr. Hess did fly to England in 1942 instead of fighting for his
cause.

Regards
Carsten Overgaard
http://www.center-validering.dk/aboutdenmark.htm

---

In article <1139162655.122095.134910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com says...
> So, have you bought a ticket to, err Beirut yet?
>
> In my mind this appears to have very little to do with freedom of
> speech, instead it is an obvious provocation on millions of muslims in
> the world,

Because clearly your mind is very small and not very bright.

---

PerX ... wrote:
> In article <1139162655.122095.134910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com says...
>
>>So, have you bought a ticket to, err Beirut yet?
>>
>>In my mind this appears to have very little to do with freedom of
>>speech, instead it is an obvious provocation on millions of muslims in
>>the world,
>
>
> Because clearly your mind is very small and not very bright.

Exactly.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
Martin Jørgensen

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home of Martin Jørgensen - http://www.martinjoergensen.dk

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139162655.122095.134910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So, have you bought a ticket to, err Beirut yet?
>
> In my mind this appears to have very little to do with freedom of
> speech, instead it is an obvious provocation on millions of muslims in
> the world,

They have the right not to feel offended.

J.

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139161791.135848.189640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm
>

Oh you mean that we shall let muslims states such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia
rule Denmark and all other countries i Europe, no way Jose forget it, there
is no country i Europe that will alllow that, and if you really think that
your too, do I have to write it

---

That's what I thought! So why this un-timely provocation?

---

> That's what I thought! So why this un-timely provocation?
>
What about 9/11. ?
Well if all danes are responsible for the drawing, then all muslims are
responsible for 9/11 !

Carl

---

In article <1139164029.369934.251300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com says...
> That's what I thought! So why this un-timely provocation?

A newspaper just printed inoccent pictures, it was was a group of
crackpots who suggest that their fantasies are more important than our
freedom of speech. They provoked us.

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139164029.369934.251300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> That's what I thought! So why this un-timely provocation?

They have the right not to feel provoked.

J.

---

>The newspaper cant be held responsible for the fact that muslims has some funny rules.

Hmmm, but as I said we have already - and for very good reasons -
extensive limitations to that right we all cherish; Freedom of Speech.
To mention a few: Anti-semitism, Nazi propaganda and artefacts, child
pornography, pornography for under-age children, information that may
incite racial tention and violence - just to mention a few examples.
Additionally, our increasingly global world places new demands on us
all in acting responsibly in order not to seriously offend population
groups that may appear un-familiar to your own culture and traditions.
The costs for sticking to your own rules in a global world are just too
obvious. Are you prepared to pay the price for that in lost property,
lost Danish jobs and loss-of-face in the world?

---

> Hmmm, but as I said we have already - and for very good reasons -
> extensive limitations to that right we all cherish; Freedom of Speech.
> To mention a few: Anti-semitism, Nazi propaganda and artefacts, child
> pornography, pornography for under-age children, information that may
> incite racial tention and violence - just to mention a few examples.
> Additionally, our increasingly global world places new demands on us
> all in acting responsibly in order not to seriously offend population
> groups that may appear un-familiar to your own culture and traditions.
> The costs for sticking to your own rules in a global world are just too
> obvious. Are you prepared to pay the price for that in lost property,
> lost Danish jobs and loss-of-face in the world?
>

Please explain to me, why I can buy a drawing/paintings of the Prophet
Muhammad in Iran

Carl

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139164560.441267.45010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >The newspaper cant be held responsible for the fact that muslims has some
> >funny rules.
>
> Hmmm, but as I said we have already - and for very good reasons -
> extensive limitations to that right we all cherish; Freedom of Speech.
> To mention a few: Anti-semitism, Nazi propaganda and artefacts, child
> pornography, pornography for under-age children, information that may
> incite racial tention and violence - just to mention a few examples.
> Additionally, our increasingly global world places new demands on us
> all in acting responsibly in order not to seriously offend population
> groups that may appear un-familiar to your own culture and traditions.
> The costs for sticking to your own rules in a global world are just too
> obvious. Are you prepared to pay the price for that in lost property,
> lost Danish jobs and loss-of-face in the world?

No price for democracy can be too high. A lot of Danes paid that price
during WWII. Personally I would not insult their memory by supporting a law
that could stop such drawings.

Regards
Carsten Overgaard
http://www.center-validering.dk/aboutdenmark.htm

---

In article <1139164560.441267.45010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com says...
> >The newspaper cant be held responsible for the fact that muslims has some funny rules.
>
> Hmmm, but as I said we have already - and for very good reasons -
> extensive limitations to that right we all cherish; Freedom of Speech.

You don't cherish freedom of speech, you want it removed.

> To mention a few: Anti-semitism, Nazi propaganda and artefacts, child
> pornography, pornography for under-age children, information that may
> incite racial tention and violence - just to mention a few examples.

Not all of those are valid in Denmark, and none of them should exsist.
You don't change the opinion of people by trying to prevent them from
saying it - you allow them to speak their piece and enter into a dialog
with them.

> The costs for sticking to your own rules in a global world are just too
> obvious. Are you prepared to pay the price for that in lost property,
> lost Danish jobs and loss-of-face in the world?

Well, apparently it isn't for the politicans - so they have agreed to be
slaves to religious tyrrany.

---

On 5 Feb 2006 10:36:00 -0800, frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com wrote:

>>The newspaper cant be held responsible for the fact that muslims has some funny rules.
>
>Hmmm, but as I said we have already - and for very good reasons -
>extensive limitations to that right we all cherish; Freedom of Speech.
>To mention a few: Anti-semitism, Nazi propaganda and artefacts, child
>pornography, pornography for under-age children, information that may
>incite racial tention and violence - just to mention a few examples.

Now that you mention it. Lets take pornography for under-age children.

In Denmark everyone is allowed to buy pornography, no matter what age.
Im sure that that is illegal in some other countries.

Or lets take driking.
Anyone in Denmark can drink alcohol if they want and people above 15yrs old can buy it.

Should we change the danish rules cause some other country has other rules?
I dont think so.

Denmark has its own rules and the danish people answer only to the danish court of law.

>Additionally, our increasingly global world places new demands on us
>all in acting responsibly in order not to seriously offend population
>groups that may appear un-familiar to your own culture and traditions.

Again. Its not Jyllandspostens fault that muslims has some funny rules.
Again, Jyllandsposten didnt publish the drawings to offend anyone.

If Jyllandsposten cant publish cartoons of mohammed, whats next?
They cant publish drawings of blind people cause if offends blind people?
They cant publish drawings of short people cause if offends short people?
They cant publish drawings of communists cause it offends communists?

If that happends dictatorship is around the corner.

>The costs for sticking to your own rules in a global world are just too
>obvious. Are you prepared to pay the price for that in lost property,
>lost Danish jobs and loss-of-face in the world?

Denmark will not lose face, cause neither Jyllandsposten nor the government will excuse for using
the freedom of speech, ever. <-- read that two times and also tell your friends

Regards
Sune

---

This is just too stupit to be true. Do you want to provoke a religious
war in the 21st century?

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139164644.970969.263150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> This is just too stupit to be true. Do you want to provoke a religious
> war in the 21st century?

No, and we haven't come even close to that yet. We don't burn down islamic
embassies here in Denmark, so no we don't provoke for a religious war. For
the middle east countries, well only they can answer that question, and may
i remind you that they infact DID burn down european embassies...

--
Sparre

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139164644.970969.263150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This is just too stupit to be true. Do you want to provoke a religious
> war in the 21st century?
>
Why do Muslims burn the Danish flag?
The cross in the flag is a Cristian cross!

Carl

---

On 5 Feb 2006 10:37:25 -0800, in dk.politik
frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com wrote:

>This is just too stupit to be true. Do you want to provoke a religious
>war in the 21st century?

Apparently, large sections of the of the muslim world seem determined
to do just that by attempting to impose their religious rules on
liberal, western democracies.

---

T.Liljeberg wrote:
> On 5 Feb 2006 10:37:25 -0800, in dk.politik
> frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> This is just too stupit to be true. Do you want to provoke a
>> religious war in the 21st century?
>
> Apparently, large sections of the of the muslim world seem determined
> to do just that by attempting to impose their religious rules on
> liberal, western democracies.


What happens in Lebanon and Syria is a part of domestic politics, where the
cartoons are the "ball" that is tossed on the playground, that everyone try
to get.

--
Allan Riise
"Demokratiets ånd kan ikke indpodes udefra. Det skal vokse indefra."
Indira Ghandi, (1917-1984), indisk premierminister 1966-77 og 1980-84

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139164644.970969.263150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This is just too stupit to be true. Do you want to provoke a religious
> war in the 21st century?

If we as a democratic country fight for freedom and provoke another country
to religious war, it wouldn´t be the first time.

J.

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139164644.970969.263150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This is just too stupit to be true. Do you want to provoke a religious
> war in the 21st century?

Noone in Denmark has done anything to provoke a war. Unless you count the
muslim delegation of religious leaders from Denmark who went on a roundtrip
to the muslim countries bringing with them the original 12 satirical
drawings and other drawings that had never been shown in the Danish press.
By lying about the situation in Denmark they knowingly started this
conflict.

It is deeply disturbing that we have people in this country who use the
original harmless satirical drawings to promote hatred and division in the
world on a false premise.

The original drawings i Jyllandsposten were published in order to start a
debate concerning to which degree we were willing to limit our freedom of
speech in order to avoid conflicts. These drawings have to be seen in
context of a time where people who practise their freedom of speech are
threatened and sometimes killed by fundamentalists.

I personally welcome the debate, and I think it is about due time that we
decide whether we are willing to sell out from our European principles in
order to please newcomers who are not yet integrated in our modern society.

You claim that as a result of the growing globalisation and the world,
informationwise, getting smaller, we should perhaps think about what we do
that may offend other cultures. You may be partially right. I do not think
that there should be any limits to the freedom of speech, but common decency
should determine what you say. That being said, it is also of the utmost
importance that people in fundamentalist countries learn that their standard
do not apply in other cultures. In Denmark we have a longstanding tradition
of using satire on all parts of our society.

As a democratic society we may have outgrown our ability to handle
fundamentalist and violent people. A democracy should allow all opinions.
Even the ones who seek to overthrow the democracy. If we do not tolerate
these people then we are no longer a democracy. They way forward has to be
through education and enlightenment not conflict. But we need to act
decisively when people in our own society start to damage the culture that
have brought them the possibilities they now possess.

--
Mvh
Anders Hyltoft

Fjern "FJERNDETTE" ved svar på email. Eller lad være, men så får jeg den
ikke

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139161791.135848.189640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

If you some ordinary people in the streets anywhere in the Middle East 1
year ago properly only a few knew that Denmark did exist.

Now everyone know it.

It is smart. Negative coverage is better than none coverage.

Regards
Carsten Overgaard
http://www.center-validering.dk/aboutdenmark.htm

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> wrote:

Just a link ...

Anyone, christian, muslim or from any religion what so ever, who is stupid
enough to fight and kill for it is an undeveloped human being not fit a
modern world.

Grow up.

--
Kurt Lund

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139161791.135848.189640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm
>

Maybe it was or maybe it was not.
But no way it is against Danish law to publish cartoons!

We are a free nation and have a free press in addition to liberty of speech.

Norma

---

OK, U got me.

Still, it doesn't improve anything.

And not alla Danes are responsible

---

I have no clue, do you?

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139167886.912952.258980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I have no clue, do you?

The ban on depictions of Mohammad isn't as strictly enforced among
shia-muslims.

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139167886.912952.258980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I have no clue, do you?
>
I know one thing. It all started with a writer, wanting to write a kids book
about Muhammed. The book should have been used to get more focus on Islam in
a possitive way.


Carl

---

Get real, this is not about democracy, nor about free speech.

So stopping these drawings would insult them, but I woud think
publishing some antisemitic stuff would be equally insulting to the
same Danes who struggeld during WWI?

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139168033.519909.288840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Get real, this is not about democracy, nor about free speech.
>
> So stopping these drawings would insult them, but I woud think
> publishing some antisemitic stuff would be equally insulting to the
> same Danes who struggeld during WWI?

We believe that the drawings are about democracy and free speech. Denmark
have always been a free place for people of all kind of difference opinions.

It have not been cheap. Several people did get hurt and a policeman was
killed when some Danes and their foreign colleagues did collect money for
the Palestinian people robbing off stores and banks.

Do You honestly believe that we should handle all these guest with a easy
laugh or drawings which bring on a smile.

Regards
Carsten Overgaard
http://www.center-validering.dk/aboutdenmark.htm

---

>You don't cherish freedom of speech, you want it removed.
Howcome I'm on the Internet speaking freely? And I do not consider
myself a hypocrite.

So are there anything that should not be published?

---

Then I belive you will pay a very high price, given what is happening
around the world.

---

On 5 Feb 2006 11:37:41 -0800, frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com wrote:

>Then I belive you will pay a very high price, given what is happening
>around the world.

If the muslims insists on targeting Denmark as if Denmark is responsible for the cartoons, then we
are prepaired to pay that price.

Denmark has a long and proud tradition of being willing to pay the price for basic human rights.
- unlike the people in the arab dictatorships.

Regards
Sune

---

> Then I belive you will pay a very high price, given what is happening
> around the world.

It is not happening around the world, it is just happening in the Muslim
states. Please don't exaggerate it. "If I understand you right, you mean the
boycott?"

People that is ready to kill because they have seen a drawing, is mentally
unstable. In the west we would send people like that to a mental
psychiatrist.

Many Muslims in Denmark don't understand that it can keep on going, and they
think that it is time to stop it.

I truly don't believe that all Muslims in the ME. Support this madness. It
lies now in the hands of the extremist on both side, and that is why it
keeps on going.

You say that Denmark loses a lot of money and some people got unemployed.
Well the boycott cost 8 times as many unemployed people in the ME compare to
Denmark. I'm sorry to inform you that you are paying the highest price for
now.

> To mention a few: Anti-semitism, Nazi propaganda and artefacts, child
> pornography, pornography for under-age children, information that may
> incite racial tention and violence - just to mention a few examples.

How could you even dream of compeering child pornography to 12 drawings? You
really can't tell the difference?

Maybe the difference between you and us really just IS too big.

How should we know that you feel so strongly about showing pictures of your
god?

How should we know that it would insult you to show the pictures? We did not
read your bible, just as I assume that you didn't read our bible.

Why don't you boycott food from all the country's that have shown the
photos? Maybe you would die of hunger if you did!

My conclusion is:
The drawings have nothing to do with this. Denmark was not the first country
to show pictures of your god. There has never been peace in the ME. And
there never will. Only to groups will benefit of this conflict, and that is
the extreme Muslim terror groups and the western Nazi groups. Anyone that
support the boycott and conflict, support one of the groups.

--

Med venlig hilsen
Tom Johansen.


<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139168261.641191.305230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Then I belive you will pay a very high price, given what is happening
> around the world.
>

---

<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139168261.641191.305230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Then I belive you will pay a very high price, given what is happening
> around the world.
>

What you ever never is going to understand is that imams from the mitteleast
wichs many muslims has fleed from, do not want those islamic countrys laws
incorporated in Denmark and they do want Denmark to be Denmark and not Egypt
or Saudi way of living as the imams wants, as long you do not understand
this, you can ask all you want.

Anmd then I think that both danish and muslems who fleed from Irak, Iran,
Egypt, Saudi islamic lows of living where women may not drive a car, may not
hold hads with husband or boyfrind and so on, do really not want to live at
that way in Danmark, but as you argue, you do not mind living that way.

Svend

---

frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm

Denmark is defending what we believe in. Muslims are aggresively
attacking us in our belief of freedom of expression and the only idiots
here are the muslims who don't respect our country laws. Are we
attacking them violently? No, but they are. Look at them.

They are even so stupid, that they think they can dictate us to make
laws that put islam in a better position than other religions and that
simply never can be accepted since this is a democracy based on respect
and religious freedom. Our free press is valued much higher as a
fundamental democratic value than religion and that those muslim idiots
can't understand.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
Martin Jørgensen

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Home of Martin Jørgensen - http://www.martinjoergensen.dk

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<frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1139161791.135848.189640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm

Have you actually seen the drawings (that what it is, not cartoons)?

The one descriped in the article, Muhammed with a bomb, is not depicted in
Jyllands-Posten. It is brought to the muslim countries by a muslim priest -
and it was not the only lie he could tell.a


--
Per, Esbjerg

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Per Henneberg Kristensen wrote:
> <frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:1139161791.135848.189640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm
>
>
> Have you actually seen the drawings (that what it is, not cartoons)?
>
> The one descriped in the article, Muhammed with a bomb, is not depicted in
> Jyllands-Posten. It is brought to the muslim countries by a muslim priest -
> and it was not the only lie he could tell.a

wrong
You are practicing exactly the kind of misinformation you accuse the
muslim priest of.
The Bomb-drawing was in JP.

Peter

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On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 22:16:09 +0100, "Per Henneberg Kristensen"
<phk_fjern_@esenet.dk> wrote:

>
><frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
>news:1139161791.135848.189640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4677976.stm
>
>Have you actually seen the drawings (that what it is, not cartoons)?
>
>The one descriped in the article, Muhammed with a bomb, is not depicted in
>Jyllands-Posten. It is brought to the muslim countries by a muslim priest -
>and it was not the only lie he could tell.a

Wrong, the "one with the bomb" actually was in the newspaper. The 12
drawings from the newspaper may be seen here:

www.geocities.com/muhammed_tegninger/muhammed.html

The one with the bomb is bottom left.

However, you should also consider, what such a drawing means. Maybe
the author wanted to tell us that there is some kind of connection
between Islam and terrorism. In this case you may ask, if this is a
wrong accusation or if there might be some truth in this?

---

Lars J. Helbo wrote:
-snip-

> However, you should also consider, what such a drawing means. Maybe
> the author wanted to tell us that there is some kind of connection
> between Islam and terrorism. In this case you may ask, if this is a
> wrong accusation or if there might be some truth in this?

There is some truth in it! Just watch the news to see another muslim
blow himself up in Iraq or whatever country, in the name of Islam.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
Martin Jørgensen

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Home of Martin Jørgensen - http://www.martinjoergensen.dk

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Good post.

A couple of things,

I get conflicting messages about the purpose of publishing the drawings
in the first place; according to Norwegian media, Jyllands-Posten
considered publishing satirical drawings of Jesus in 2003 but turned
that down because they thought it would cause an uproar among their
readers. If true, you might get the impression that Jyllands-Posten
finds it easier to play with other peoples tabos than your own. If so,
and given the current situation in the world, I believe it was extremly
ill adviced to decide to publish these drawings as opposed to any other
tabo subject that would have served to illustrate their point.
According to reports, a muslim group in Belgium and the Netherlands
decided to illustrate this point by publishing drawings of among other
similar subjects Hitler in bed with Anne Frank. I belive that most
medias in Europe would have decided not to publish that.

I agree that in many predominantly muslim countries, media are not free
and freedom of speech may be badly undermined. We - who are living
countries where freedom of speech is being taken for granted have a
responsibility to spread the word about such freedoms and the benefits
of having a government that do not have explicit control over the
medias. However, I doubt that the current incident will do little to
spread that message. Instead, it is giving radical groups in muslim
countries power to spread their message to more people and thus
escalating this conflict and the mistrust between Western and Muslim
countries. I dont think we need that right now. Instead, I belive that
we all need to re-learn how to live in a world where people of
different cultures and traditions live side by side, both in the
physical world and online. That involves learning more about other
cultures. We should all learn from this incident that Muslims in
general take their religion very seriously - and there is nothing bad
with that. They should perhaps learn more about freedom of speech and
democracy.

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On 6 Feb 2006 13:13:58 -0800, in dk.politik
frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com wrote:

>given the current situation in the world, I believe it was extremly
>ill adviced to decide to publish these drawings as opposed to any other
>tabo subject that would have served to illustrate their point.

It may be ill-advised, but that is not the point here. The point is
whether is should be illegal or not. If we take freedom of speech
seriously, then it cannot be illegal to publish the drawings. No
matter how stupid or ill-advised.

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frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com skrev:

> publishing about Jews in the runup to the Kristal-nacht. We have in
> fact accepted - quite universally - that it is illegal to publish or
> even wear Nazi insignia, to dispute the existence of the Holocaust and
> to practise anti-semitism. And for very good reasons, I would say!

We? Is that France, Germany or what?

In Denmark, Nazi symbols or Holocaust denial are perfecly legal, AFAIK
the same is the case in the UK, US, Norway and Sweden 8I could be
mistaken). There is even a Nazi party, it has not been banned as the
public prosecutor did not think it possible to prove that it worked
through violence. Same applies to various communist/stalinist/maoist
parties. Anyway, I think it is preferable to have the creep out in the
open.

/Martin

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frenchstatueofliberty@yahoo.com skrev:

> The costs for sticking to your own rules in a global world are just too
> obvious. Are you prepared to pay the price for that in lost property,
> lost Danish jobs and loss-of-face in the world?

I think so.

Consider the alternative: Everything you publish should be acceptable
to every person and governement in the whole world. _That_ would reduce
the newsprint consumption.

I you think it was wrong to publish the drawings, it should follow that
it was also wrong (morally or whatever) to publish Rushdie's "the
Satanic Verses". I am not considering artistic value here, only insult
potential.

AFAIK, the notion that Jesus is the son of God is blasphemy (or at
least offensive) to muslims, i.e. it should not be published. Likewise,
parts of the scriptures muslims hold dear would qualify as hate speach
without problems; consider the views of homosexuality, apostasy,
infidelity.

What offends Jehova's Withnesses? The Amish? Scientologists?

Please try to think it through.

Rgds

Martin

---

That may be your point but not mine. Read my post again.