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George Svenson a grandfather
Fra : Hugh Watkins


Dato : 19-04-02 21:23

reposted from a Wales Monmouthshire mailing list
Gwent is the old Welsh name for the area and used again today under the new Welsh Parliament.

Hugh W

********************************************************

Sue wrote
I'm still running up against a brickwall with the problem of my grandfather six years on, so I hope no one minds but here's the
story again! I would be most grateful for any fresh ideas or to hear from anyone who might know anything!

My grandmother, Susie Hounsell married Henry Pitman in Cardiff in 1908. They had one daughter, Dollie in 1909.

Susie and Henry moved to Newport and in April 1921 Susie (who was 42 at the time) gave birth to a daughter Cynthia at home, 19
Castle Street, Newport. Susie's sister Eva Batchelor lived at no 21 Castle Street at that time.

However on the birth certificate Cynthia's father is named as George Svenson, marine fireman and it was he who registered the birth.
He returned in July 1922 for Cynthia's baptism. Susie and Cynthia were by then living in St.Michaels Street. Henry Pitman no longer
lived with them.

After this George Svenson disappears and my mother, Cynthia grew up never knowing him. My grandmother, Susie told her he was a
seaman from Sweden ( his entries on ship's crew list confirm this) and judging by my mother's height in relation to her mother and
sister I think this was right!

Despite having letters printed in the "Argus" and plowing through mounds of ship's crew lists as well as lots of help from list
members, I still don't know any more about my grandfather, George Svenson!

Any help would be most welcome.

Many thanks,

Sue Irvine.



==== MONMOUTHSHIRE Mailing List ====

Gwent Family History Society at:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsgfhs/index.htm

==============================

To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to:

http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237


--
http://www.enterpol.dk my favourite email server and FirstClass BBS
http://www.net-medier.dk/ http://www.net-medier.dk/default.asp?ID=11
http://news.fu-berlin.de/ - usenet news service
at http://www.fu-berlin.de/ Freie Universität Berlin http://www.fu-berlin.de/en/



 
 
Hugh Watkins (20-04-2002)
Kommentar
Fra : Hugh Watkins


Dato : 20-04-02 18:38


"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_watkins@net.dialog.dk> wrote in message news:a9pu96$5b5so$1@ID-71976.news.dfncis.de...
> reposted from a Wales Monmouthshire mailing list

more from Sue

Carl Jörgen Svenson

any Swedish crew lists 1907 and earlier

how old would a boy be when he went to sea in those days?

12 or 14 years ? A stoker?

What training ships were there in Sweden 1900 to 1907 ?

Hugh W


*************************************************************
On my Mother's birth certificate her father was George Svenson, Marine Fireman M.S. Then on the baptism record, George Charles
Svenson.

I went to Southampton where the original Cr1,2 and 10 cards for the Merchant Navy are kept. Each mariner had his own card so I found
every Svenson, Svensson and Swenson and made notes so that I could compare the details with my own ideas of what age, height etc he
must have been. I found a Carl G.Svenson whose details matched what I needed and although it gave a Dis.A. number(unique to each
seaman) there was no matching CR1 card for him. I then tried Swanson and there he was, named as Charles Swanson, but the Dis.A.
number was the same as was his description. ( So George Charles became Carl G.!) From this I found the number of the ship he was on
in 1919 and also a photograph! I think he was named Charles Swanson by the clerk filling in the card as its the nearest English
spelling.

To cut a very long story short I obtained the crew list from Newfoundland and as each list gives the crew members previous ship I
got back to 1917.

Then on another card where he was named Carl G.Svenson (still same unique number) I found the ship he was on in 1914 and managed by
obtaining crew lists to get back to 1907.

The points that make me certain that this is the right man are:

1 He always sailed on British ships (from 1907 at least) and they always were connected to or sailed in the Bristol Channel.

2. I grovelled to the Registrars Office in Newport and they sent me a photocopy of the signature on the original birth certificate
which is a very good match for his signatures on the crew lists.

3. On the birth cert. he signs Svenson with one "S" in the middle and all the crew list signatures do too. (although all Swedish
advice tells me it would be 2 "S's" !

4. Bit of a long shot, but my mother's middle name was Mabel, the last ship I found him on was the Maple Branch.

I know all this is very hypothetical, but not having any relatives left to ask I have to do this alone and its so frustrating not
being able to find your own grandfather!

All my mother was told by her mother was that he was Swedish and that he had wanted them to go back to Sweden with him but my
grandmother's father wouldn't allow it!




Dan Palm (20-04-2002)
Kommentar
Fra : Dan Palm


Dato : 20-04-02 19:33

Do you any indications from witch part of Sweden he originated, or what
Shipping line he was hired to? If you do It is easier to direct you to a
local genealogy society in Sweden. They can often help you. It may also be
an idea to take contact with the Swedish seaman church in Brittan.
http://www.gbnw.u-net.com/
http://www.swedish-church.org.uk/

--
Dan Palm
Scania, Sweden
hodd_mimer@yahoo.se


"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_watkins@net.dialog.dk> skrev i meddelandet
news:a9s8vk$5t9c0$1@ID-71976.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Hugh Watkins" <hugh_watkins@net.dialog.dk> wrote in message
news:a9pu96$5b5so$1@ID-71976.news.dfncis.de...
> > reposted from a Wales Monmouthshire mailing list
>
> more from Sue
>
> Carl Jörgen Svenson
>
> any Swedish crew lists 1907 and earlier
>
> how old would a boy be when he went to sea in those days?
>
> 12 or 14 years ? A stoker?
>
> What training ships were there in Sweden 1900 to 1907 ?
>
> Hugh W
>
>
> *************************************************************
> On my Mother's birth certificate her father was George Svenson, Marine
Fireman M.S. Then on the baptism record, George Charles
> Svenson.
>
> I went to Southampton where the original Cr1,2 and 10 cards for the
Merchant Navy are kept. Each mariner had his own card so I found
> every Svenson, Svensson and Swenson and made notes so that I could compare
the details with my own ideas of what age, height etc he
> must have been. I found a Carl G.Svenson whose details matched what I
needed and although it gave a Dis.A. number(unique to each
> seaman) there was no matching CR1 card for him. I then tried Swanson and
there he was, named as Charles Swanson, but the Dis.A.
> number was the same as was his description. ( So George Charles became
Carl G.!) From this I found the number of the ship he was on
> in 1919 and also a photograph! I think he was named Charles Swanson by the
clerk filling in the card as its the nearest English
> spelling.
>
> To cut a very long story short I obtained the crew list from Newfoundland
and as each list gives the crew members previous ship I
> got back to 1917.
>
> Then on another card where he was named Carl G.Svenson (still same unique
number) I found the ship he was on in 1914 and managed by
> obtaining crew lists to get back to 1907.
>
> The points that make me certain that this is the right man are:
>
> 1 He always sailed on British ships (from 1907 at least) and they always
were connected to or sailed in the Bristol Channel.
>
> 2. I grovelled to the Registrars Office in Newport and they sent me a
photocopy of the signature on the original birth certificate
> which is a very good match for his signatures on the crew lists.
>
> 3. On the birth cert. he signs Svenson with one "S" in the middle and all
the crew list signatures do too. (although all Swedish
> advice tells me it would be 2 "S's" !
>
> 4. Bit of a long shot, but my mother's middle name was Mabel, the last
ship I found him on was the Maple Branch.
>
> I know all this is very hypothetical, but not having any relatives left to
ask I have to do this alone and its so frustrating not
> being able to find your own grandfather!
>
> All my mother was told by her mother was that he was Swedish and that he
had wanted them to go back to Sweden with him but my
> grandmother's father wouldn't allow it!
>
>
>



Hugh Watkins (20-04-2002)
Kommentar
Fra : Hugh Watkins


Dato : 20-04-02 20:49


"Dan Palm" <hodd_mimer@yahoo.se> wrote in message news:Gviw8.33092$n4.6722185@newsc.telia.net...
> Do you any indications from witch part of Sweden he originated, or what
> Shipping line he was hired to? If you do It is easier to direct you to a
> local genealogy society in Sweden. They can often help you. It may also be
> an idea to take contact with the Swedish seaman church in Brittan.
> http://www.gbnw.u-net.com/
> http://www.swedish-church.org.uk/


tousand tak Dan

Sue has sent this now

Hugh W

Svenson

date of birth
15th August 1879, Stockholm.



Anybody care to do a look up please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeg kan godt forstår Dansk og (nåsten) Svensk eller Skånske,

jeg er efaren Københavnsk taxi chauffeur men darligt til at skrive Dansk


**************** from his grand daughter ****************************
These are the first few ships:

Lizzie English O.N. 81512 owned by Pyman Brothers.

He was on this ship 20/03/1907 to 3/07/1907.

His previous ship was the Hillcrag but I can't find the crew list for it.

His home address given as Sailors Home, Liverpool.

The Londesborough O.N. 109085 owned by Scott Bros. crew member from

13/07/1907 to 7/12/1908.

Home address on one voyage was 28 Drottninggatan, Karlskrona, Sweden

(this was the Seaman's House in Karlskrona)

Other voyages on this ship home address was just Stockholm (Drottninggatan)

or 104 Howard St. North Shields. or On Board.



Next ship was the Sceptre O.N.106621 owned by Hall Bros.

On this ship from 27/05/1909 to 30/07/1909

Port of engagement address "Penbryn, Tynyda Rd. Barry

Home address is unreadable!

Next ship was the Meldon O.N. 114435 owned by The Morpeth S.S. Company.

on this ship 6/08/1909 to 19/10/1909 .

Home address 104 Howard St. North Shields.

His name is spelt Svenson on his first cards. D.o.B. given as 15th August

1879, Stockholm. Nationality : Swede,

Father: Swede.

Do you know if there is a central register for I.D. numbers or N.H.Insurance

numbers as he has both of these on his cards?

Thanks again for your interest,

`***************************************

There was a HILLCRAG operated by John Herron & Co, Liverpool (S.S.Lord
Letham Co.Ltd.). 2,356 gross tons, built 1896. This was a tramp steamer and
typical voyages were - Rosario to UK with grain, Cardiff to Bahia Blanca,
Burma to UK with rice. The company ceased trading in 1920. I suspect that
this was your ship.[British Ocean Tramps, vol.2 by P. N. Thomas]

<<< has this been in Swedish ports ?





Dan Palm (20-04-2002)
Kommentar
Fra : Dan Palm


Dato : 20-04-02 22:27


"Hugh Watkins" <hugh_watkins@net.dialog.dk> skrev i meddelandet
news:a9sgn1$60l23$1@ID-71976.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Dan Palm" <hodd_mimer@yahoo.se> wrote in message
news:Gviw8.33092$n4.6722185@newsc.telia.net...
> > Do you any indications from witch part of Sweden he originated, or what
> > Shipping line he was hired to? If you do It is easier to direct you to a
> > local genealogy society in Sweden. They can often help you. It may also
be
> > an idea to take contact with the Swedish seaman church in Brittan.
> > http://www.gbnw.u-net.com/
> > http://www.swedish-church.org.uk/
>
>
> tousand tak Dan
>
> Sue has sent this now
>
> Hugh W
>
> Svenson
>
> date of birth
> 15th August 1879, Stockholm.
>
>
>
> Anybody care to do a look up please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Jeg kan godt forstår Dansk og (nåsten) Svensk eller Skånske,
>
> jeg er efaren Københavnsk taxi chauffeur men darligt til at skrive Dansk
>
>

Maybe you can try and write to any of these Societies.

The Greater Stockholm Genealogical Society
http://home.swipnet.se/ssgf/

DIS-Öst
http://www.abc.se/~mm/dis-ost/

Also you maybe should try to contact the Sailors trade union. They maybe can
help you. I don't know how far back there records go, but it can be worth a
try
http://www.seko.se/


--
Dan Palm
Scania, Sweden
hodd_mimer@yahoo.se



Hugh Watkins (21-04-2002)
Kommentar
Fra : Hugh Watkins


Dato : 21-04-02 12:44


"Dan Palm" <hodd_mimer@yahoo.se> wrote
> Maybe you can try and write to any of these Societies.
>
> The Greater Stockholm Genealogical Society
> http://home.swipnet.se/ssgf/
>
> DIS-Öst
> http://www.abc.se/~mm/dis-ost/


thanks Dan

Hugh W



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